2021 F150 "work truck" faster than a Raptor.

[OEMPlus Raptor]

I knew what the results would be and I didn't even watch. TFL has some good content and some really stupid content such as this. Anyone ever see the Gladiator vs. the F250 "Super Tremor" tug o war?

 

[oliver1539]

I believe Ford has something up their sleeve for the gen 3. Probably the reason they haven't released numbers yet..

 

[Badgertits]

I believe Ford has something up their sleeve for the gen 3. Probably the reason they haven't released numbers yet..

i keep saying this

I was in Dearborn 2 weeks ago....sell aluminum to Ford, while I couldn’t get many straight answers from the brass there, when I was peppering one of the lead production guys giving a tour what the deal was w/ the “base” raptor not getting a powerboost- I was like....”it needs to make more power than the gen2 & has the same engine, mapping it for 91+ octane & adding a lil timing I don’t think will cut it + it seems like Ford would want to keep it able to run on 87, you guys gonna slap the GT turbos on this or what?”

he wouldn’t give an answer, just brushed it off, but the look on his face told me I was getting warmer....

 

[K223]

i keep saying this

I was in Dearborn 2 weeks ago....sell aluminum to Ford, while I couldn’t get many straight answers from the brass there, when I was peppering one of the lead production guys giving a tour what the deal was w/ the “base” raptor not getting a powerboost- I was like....”it needs to make more power than the gen2 & has the same engine, mapping it for 91+ octane & adding a lil timing I don’t think will cut it + it seems like Ford would want to keep it able to run on 87, you guys gonna slap the GT turbos on this or what?”

he wouldn’t give an answer, just brushed it off, but the look on his face told me I was getting warmer....

They have the tech to run it on 87 and go crazy on 93 with bigger turbos etc. Now who was that guy on Twitter the VP of marketing or public release information? When people were complaining to him on Twitter about no V8, he said remember the Raptor is lighter than the TRX with it’s all aluminum (hey a plug for you bro) body etc. but of course no power numbers. Almost leads me to believe, they may really improve upon the Gen 3 3.5 HO to at least give the TRX a run for the money without having to wait in the R version. So makes me think. Will Ford have us going Wow after it’s all said and done.

 

[melvimbe]

i keep saying this

I was in Dearborn 2 weeks ago....sell aluminum to Ford, while I couldn’t get many straight answers from the brass there, when I was peppering one of the lead production guys giving a tour what the deal was w/ the “base” raptor not getting a powerboost- I was like....”it needs to make more power than the gen2 & has the same engine, mapping it for 91+ octane & adding a lil timing I don’t think will cut it + it seems like Ford would want to keep it able to run on 87, you guys gonna slap the GT turbos on this or what?”

he wouldn’t give an answer, just brushed it off, but the look on his face told me I was getting warmer....

If the Gen 3 had bigger turbos on it, what would be the point of keeping that a secret? Seriously, they told us about everything else about the vehicle, and they know that putting on bigger turbos would raise interest in the truck. They aren't going to increase sales by keeping it a secret up till the ordering starts. I can see where they don't have official power numbers yet, but I would think the could mention the turbos without power numbers...

Unless they don't want people to speculate on the power numbers. If the HP is lower than what people expect, than the reaction is disappointment. If it gets you up to 500 HP, or 525...then perhaps people are just focused on the HP increase rather than the bigger turbos and what they imagine it could have been.

Or it could be that whatever engine changes are coming to the base Raptor aren't coming in 2021, but will happen in 2022.

 

[K223]

If the Gen 3 had bigger turbos on it, what would be the point of keeping that a secret? Seriously, they told us about everything else about the vehicle, and they know that putting on bigger turbos would raise interest in the truck. They aren't going to increase sales by keeping it a secret up till the ordering starts. I can see where they don't have official power numbers yet, but I would think the could mention the turbos without power numbers...

Unless they don't want people to speculate on the power numbers. If the HP is lower than what people expect, than the reaction is disappointment. If it gets you up to 500 HP, or 525...then perhaps people are just focused on the HP increase rather than the bigger turbos and what they imagine it could have been.

Or it could be that whatever engine changes are coming to the base Raptor aren't coming in 2021, but will happen in 2022.

I can see your points. But I don’t see Ford and at least on the Raptor coming out and saying “now with bigger turbos”. Turbos are really just a part on the motor and automakers do not normally advertise or remark in big ways on a granular level like this. Kind of like saying now with coated piston skirts or forged rods. Sure the interviews later with an engineer would reveal this, but that’s lower key interviews with an engineer.

Again I like some of your points and some are valid. The other think and let me play Debbie Downer a second here is this. With more power comes more liability for Ford on the warranty side. Do they want to push the motor closer to what they feel it can only handle? Sure if it’s anything like a GT’s 3.5 it can handle over 650HP. But we don’t truly know or at least most of us.

 

[Badgertits]

If the Gen 3 had bigger turbos on it, what would be the point of keeping that a secret? Seriously, they told us about everything else about the vehicle, and they know that putting on bigger turbos would raise interest in the truck. They aren't going to increase sales by keeping it a secret up till the ordering starts. I can see where they don't have official power numbers yet, but I would think the could mention the turbos without power numbers...

Unless they don't want people to speculate on the power numbers. If the HP is lower than what people expect, than the reaction is disappointment. If it gets you up to 500 HP, or 525...then perhaps people are just focused on the HP increase rather than the bigger turbos and what they imagine it could have been.

Or it could be that whatever engine changes are coming to the base Raptor aren't coming in 2021, but will happen in 2022.

I look at it like, wouldn’t they hold out on it especially w/ the TRX release? Add suspense, keep people guessing, I’d bet you my truck Ford won’t have a bit of a problem selling these Gen3 Raptors- they don’t need to worry bout increasing sales or raising more interest- the sales & interest are already there w/ the TRX available or not

and if they’re putting bigger snails on & bumping it to 525-550hp & 600tq (I truly believe this to be the case) - THAT will be just bout enough to stay w/ a TRX on the street, a gen2 is already better offroad so that will be covered & then some w/ the “base” gen 3- MANY people (myself included) prefer/like the 3.5tt HO more than a Ford V8, and for those that need to have the top dog? The Raptor R w/ 5.2 SCd V8 is gonna scratch that itch & then some, & while weighing 1000lbs less than a TRX w/ more power & TQ, I think it’s going to be a blood bath in every measure.

my only questions on the Raptor-R would be- I wonder if they’ll employ the dual clutch tranny from the GT500 as well & put those shift paddles finally to good use....& what if they get real cute & add a 17” carbon fiber wheel option? That’ll make adding any 37”s you want a lot less painful in terms of performance hit & will really make the thing feel quick in short bursts

Cant wait to see what they do- like I keep saying the bigger turbos really makes the most sense - needs to have more power than the gen2 & more power/TQ then a powerboost F150, 500-550hp & 600tq would be the minimum IMHO

 

[Badgertits]

I can see your points. But I don’t see Ford and at least on the Raptor coming out and saying “now with bigger turbos”. Turbos are really just a part on the motor and automakers do not normally advertise or remark in big ways on a granular level like this. Kind of like saying now with coated piston skirts or forged rods. Sure the interviews later with an engineer would reveal this, but that’s lower key interviews with an engineer.

Again I like some of your points and some are valid. The other think and let me play Debbie Downer a second here is this. With more power comes more liability for Ford on the warranty side. Do they want to push the motor closer to what they feel it can only handle? Sure if it’s anything like a GT’s 3.5 it can handle over 650HP. But we don’t truly know or at least most of us.

yeah you’re 100% right

btw.....guess this means you didn’t know the turbos currently on your gen2 are bigger than the ones on a standard 3.5EB right?

The fact that Ford didn’t really mention anything in marketing the gen2 about bigger turbos didn’t stop em from doing it, they just called it “high output” & that was enough of a marketing gimmick, the truck speaks for/sells itself quite nicely after you take it for a test ride anyhow lol

and so- I could easily see em adding the GT snails to the Gen3 w/o much hoopla and maybe call it the “SHO” 3.5 EB....& guess what? People damn sure know what that means lol- more performance!

did they advertise that the forged guts/crank of the Raptor are shared w/ the GT? Nope. You need to really dig into the engineering/design coverage to Cull that info out.

 

[melvimbe]

I can see your points. But I don’t see Ford and at least on the Raptor coming out and saying “now with bigger turbos”. Turbos are really just a part on the motor and automakers do not normally advertise or remark in big ways on a granular level like this. Kind of like saying now with coated piston skirts or forged rods. Sure the interviews later with an engineer would reveal this, but that’s lower key interviews with an engineer.

I was thinking more along the lines of "we've increased the size of the turbo which will the Raptor to generate more power. We can't give you the numbers yet, but expect it to be increased over the previous generation." And agreed, it's not a marketing slogan, but something stated by engineers in a interview. I don't see that as much different that explaining how they had to create a rear bumper specifically to accommodate 37s...that sort of thing.

Again I like some of your points and some are valid. The other think and let me play Debbie Downer a second here is this. With more power comes more liability for Ford on the warranty side. Do they want to push the motor closer to what they feel it can only handle? Sure if it’s anything like a GT’s 3.5 it can handle over 650HP. But we don’t truly know or at least most of us.

Don't disagree with that either. And honestly, it's not like they are going to have a problem selling the Gen 3s if it stays around 450 HP for '21. Personally, if the options are slightly more HP for 2021 and future non-R Gen 3s....or no change in '21 a 500+ hybrid Raptor in '22 and beyond...I'll take the later. I would think Ford's warranty liability would be better too.

But can they have 3 Raptor engine options. 3.5 TT, 3.5TT powerboost, and SC V8? Can each option have 35 and 37 options? Don't think so.

 

[K223]

Too much to multi quote a response here LOL

But true if Ford. Brings torque to 600lbs on the Gen 3 and still has that big weight advantage, that’s only 50lbs of TQ away from the TRX. In the real world a Gen 3 probably hangs tough with a TRX 0-60 and in the dirt power wise. Checkmate Ford! Now are they doing it? Holding out until mission accomplished? Or don’t care to compete with the TRX and let the possible R coming out just walk all over it? I think running practically with it with a stinking V6 speaks volumes of engineering marvel and last laugh at that.

I will say I like the 3.5 H.O. And knew damn well what I was buying. Great power for big vehicle it’s in and really good gas mileage and range at that. Not to mention can be very responsive to tuning.

Think I heard something about the H.O. Having different turbos than a standard 3.5 at some point. But I know the static compression ratio is higher on the H.O. As well. Other than that and a lot of the same internals as a GT I wasn’t fully aware of.

I can’t see a big time off road truck getting carbon wheels so fast. A street or track car yes. Even the street can be tough for full carbon wheels.

I’d love to see a Powerboost Raptor in the future. No doubt I was raised on V8’s and love’em, but I like power and tech too and I bought into a V6TT and enjoying it as well.