2019 Shocks vs. ?

[MDJAK]

I readily admit much of this is way over my head. At most thus far I’ve only done soft roading. Going out to learn a bit at Raptor Assault in August.

What I can tell you is strictly on road performance, my 19 v. my 17 is a considerable step up in many ways, not the least of which is the truck now feels as if it’s one piece, a whole, instead of a cab and bed. It no longer allows the rear to step out and hop on highway bumps on curves. Over a washboard surface the truck has almost no vibration, again a big improvement over my 17.

Oh, I also love the 1” longer seat cushion on my Recaros. But that’s for another thread I guess.

 

[zombiekiller]

Ok, so in summary... 2019 Live Valve trumps 2018, I’m talking stock to stock set up. Now 2019 shocks compared to aftermarket, obviously make a difference specific to fade due to fluid volume. So theoretically the ideal scenario is the live valve technology with a shock that allows more fluid volume to prevent fade. I would have to argue (no disrespect) that irrespective of bypass tubes the Live Valves would yield more than the 250% increase in valving options vs. a 4 tube bypass (also assuming there’s exponentially more valving options due to the programming). So in our Raptor dream land we’d want more fluid volume delivered by increased body size or reservoirs? This is all assuming we were talking apples to apples with stock travel numbers. I was just trying to determine if the electronic controlled valving was really as cool as it sounds keeping other variables static (travel/springs/etc).

So yes, Fox should hook us up and provide more options

In reality if I wanted to pound the shit out of something I’d just build a TTB something, or buy a 10 car/6100 for the same price. I do enjoy the AC on my ass though from the 2019.

That's over summarizing. Big shocks have much more adjustment as each tube has an immense amount of fine tuning available. There isn't a computer with the ability to switch tubes dynamically though.

 

[rtmozingo]

That's over summarizing. Big shocks have much more adjustment as each tube has an immense amount of fine tuning available. There isn't a computer with the ability to switch tubes dynamically though.

I think that is where most of our confusion is coming from. In our minds, a computer controlled shock - even a 3.0 internal - adjusting 200x a second is going to be better tuned - and have as wide a range - than a 'set-and-forgot- 3.0 external, so that the increased fluid volume will only help with shock fade. It sounds like you are arguing that the aftermarket options already are closely equivalent to the range provided by the 2019 shocks, maybe even more, and then coupled with increased fluid capacity means longer running at 100%.

Am I summarizing it correctly? Thanks for taking the time to explain it to those of us who are interested but learning.

On that note, three more questions related to 2017 shocks. I've been assuming bucking after landing indicative that's about the speed limit for a jump/obstacle, tho I've never incurred damage for accidentally doing this. Is that a good metric for determining shock limits, and if it is a problem, what is the best way to correct it? Lastly, am I correct in ascertaining that the high speed compression for the front shocks is a bit lower than what you might want offroad, which is what causes this?

 

[J Money]

I think that is where most of our confusion is coming from. In our minds, a computer controlled shock - even a 3.0 internal - adjusting 200x a second is going to be better tuned - and have as wide a range - than a 'set-and-forgot- 3.0 external, so that the increased fluid volume will only help with shock fade. It sounds like you are arguing that the aftermarket options already are closely equivalent to the range provided by the 2019 shocks, maybe even more, and then coupled with increased fluid capacity means longer running at 100%.

Am I summarizing it correctly? Thanks for taking the time to explain it to those of us who are interested but learning.

On that note, three more questions related to 2017 shocks. I've been assuming bucking after landing indicative that's about the speed limit for a jump/obstacle, tho I've never incurred damage for accidentally doing this. Is that a good metric for determining shock limits, and if it is a problem, what is the best way to correct it? Lastly, am I correct in ascertaining that the high speed compression for the front shocks is a bit lower than what you might want offroad, which is what causes this?

That’s a tough one but this may help...

A few factors might be in play. Bucking could be contributed to a) the speed limit of a jump, you found it. Especially if you’re referring to a whoop section. Your shocks could be fading if hot. B) where is the bucking coming from? Front or rear? If it’s the rear... a set of hydraulic bumps would help soften the landing and eliminate the bucking C) you might just need a rebuild D) driving style. If it’s a whoop section or desert terrain (no big bits or holes) sometimes putting your foot into it will smoothen things out by staying on top of the jumps.

All of those scenarios are good points in favor of live valving or tuneable bypass tubes. To zombie killers point that’s where being able to tweak on rebound settings helps out a ton.

Now... the only other factor is, not everybody is a shock tuner. Including myself. To effectively tune you almost need to be sitting passenger and keep going through the same section over and over until you find the right mix of rebound and compression dampening. The more bypass tubes the more tuning you have and a lot of extra variables. High/Low Speed compression and rebound etc.

Most of the shock packages out there are valved from the vendor based on testing from their shop truck etc. They’ll factor everyday weight, fuel etc and tune every set to the sweet spot they found.

In the past, I’ve found that Icons seem to have a lot of compression dampening (low speed) but kick ass when you hammer it down.

Other factors to consider... springs rates.

That’s why the live valve seems cool. Takes a lot out of the tuning fun.

 

[rtmozingo]

That’s a tough one but this may help...

A few factors might be in play. Bucking could be contributed to a) the speed limit of a jump, you found it. Especially if you’re referring to a whoop section. Your shocks could be fading if hot. B) where is the bucking coming from? Front or rear? If it’s the rear... a set of hydraulic bumps would help soften the landing and eliminate the bucking C) you might just need a rebuild D) driving style. If it’s a whoop section or desert terrain (no big bits or holes) sometimes putting your foot into it will smoothen things out by staying on top of the jumps.

All of those scenarios are good points in favor of live valving or tuneable bypass tubes. To zombie killers point that’s where being able to tweak on rebound settings helps out a ton.

Now... the only other factor is, not everybody is a shock tuner. Including myself. To effectively tune you almost need to be sitting passenger and keep going through the same section over and over until you find the right mix of rebound and compression dampening. The more bypass tubes the more tuning you have and a lot of extra variables. High/Low Speed compression and rebound etc.

Most of the shock packages out there are valved from the vendor based on testing from their shop truck etc. They’ll factor everyday weight, fuel etc and tune every set to the sweet spot they found.

In the past, I’ve found that Icons seem to have a lot of compression dampening (low speed) but kick ass when you hammer it down.

Other factors to consider... springs rates.

That’s why the live valve seems cool. Takes a lot out of the tuning fun.

well said. I'm pretty happy with my stock shocks, although I recognize they are jack of all trades. Just don't want to break my truck, and sometimes it is hard to figure out if you need to go faster to smooth out things or slow down. Generally I only notice the front shocks bucking, and usually on the harder-hitting jumps - tho I need to get better at just going faster through whoops to flatten out the truck.