2019+ Fox 3.0 Live Valve Shocks!

[zombiekiller]

Lol.. so wheel position doesn't correlate ride height?

You modify your ride height as soon as you add a different spring, a collar, or even a front bumper.

The computer doesnt care what your ride height is.

It cares about where the wheel is in relation to where it should be and how fast it is going.

Two very very different things.

Ride height sensors, like those used with air bags calculate something very different... Making sure the ride height is where it should be.

 

[TurboTJ]

You modify your ride height as soon as you add a different spring, a collar, or even a front bumper.

The computer doesnt care what your ride height is.

It cares about where the wheel is in relation to where it should be and how fast it is going.

Two very very different things.

Ride height sensors, like those used with air bags calculate something very different... Making sure the ride height is where it should be.

So what does the sensor output? I would guess it’s an angle or angular velocity of the LCA? How does it know where it should be without knowing it’s position?

Love your build thread, btw!

 

[NEOGARAGE]

So what does the sensor output? I would guess it’s an angle or angular velocity of the LCA? How does it know where it should be without knowing it’s position?

Love your build thread, btw!

It basically let’s the computer know where the suspension is within its cycle so it can prepare for say a hard landing after a jump, etc.

 

[zombiekiller]

So what does the sensor output? I would guess it’s an angle or angular velocity of the LCA? How does it know where it should be without knowing it’s position?

Love your build thread, btw!

without being able to see the table values, it is kind of hard to say. Ford and fox made it a point to make it a pain in the ass to view the tables or mess with them.

I know the system is using steering, throttle, transmission, brake, gyro, abs and wheel speed inputs.

That would leave me to believe that the sensor on the control arm is measuring angle, which is also why you have to do a relearn/reset when you add a collar, different springs, or upper control arms.

Essentially that made a system that could have been really simple to implement and to retrofit, insanely complex for no good reason.

What it doesn't do is sense shock shaft speed, shock shaft position, nor shock fluid temp. You could make an argument that they didn't use the most valuable data points from a desert truck perspective.

As far as where it should be and knowing it: It knows what the static angle should be. It knows what the angle should be at either extreme. based on what the "correct" angle should be in relation to all of those other variables, the computer will make micro valve adjustments to keep the shocks in the "optimal operating range". I'm pretty sure that it also calculates the speed and amount of angle change to calculate the position of the wheel centerline as well as some voodoo around what different motions mean. (i.e. if the angle goes from full bump to full droop in x time, crank up the compression bc we're coming in for a hard landing.")

Again, I personally think it isn't the best implementation that could have been created, but bean counters always keep engineers from doing things the "rightest way".

Can you imagine what some members of this board would have said if the sticker on a raptor was $100K instead of 70ish?

Now you know why the system is as it is.

Oh and thanks for the compliment. I miss my raptor. Its been in pieces since oct.

 

[PlainJane]

What it doesn't do is sense shock shaft speed, shock shaft position, nor shock fluid temp.

Calculating the shock shaft speed and position from the UCA position and rate of change is elementary.

You are correct about the fluid temp not being measured directly, but the computer could calculate the effect of raised temperature and compensate for it.

 

[zombiekiller]

Calculating the shock shaft speed and position from the UCA position and rate of change is elementary.

You are correct about the fluid temp not being measured directly, but the computer could calculate the effect of raised temperature and compensate for it.

I don't think it's elementary at all. While not necessary with all of those other data points, if you took that relatively simple data point it would save quite a few clock cycles when compared to what it takes to calculate it with all of those other data points. A simpler, more efficient formula is anything but elementary in data science.

you can't really infer what is going on by just the shock oil temp, other than the shock is being overworked. I don't see how it would be valuable without also understanding the shock shaft position and speed.

And it also seems crazy to make the complex calculation of shock position and speed with all of those other data points. I'd venture a guess that the extra compute capacity required to do the calculations is more expensive than a simple pair of sensors, but being what it is, I'm sure someone at Ford did the math.

If the sensors were the cheaper option, it would have been good for the tinkerers and aftermarket as you wouldn't need much more than a few good software guys and a few knowledgable shock people to build an aftermarket system.

 

[PlainJane]

I am sure they did the math and made a look-up table for every position and rate of change for the UCA sensor. They know the shaft speed and it is elementary.

The effect of shock oil temperature is not so easy, but doable by calculating the expected response to the actual. Much like the temperature effect on a air/fuel map.

 

[zombiekiller]

I am sure they did the math and made a look-up table for every position and rate of change for the UCA sensor. They know the shaft speed and it is elementary.

The effect of shock oil temperature is not so easy, but doable by calculating the expected response to the actual. Much like the temperature effect on a air/fuel map.

again. I'm sure they did, but my personal interest in the technology is aftermarket and/or retrofit.

The complexity of attempting that with the way the system was designed is more complex than necessary on purpose if judging the decision solely on the most simple way to gain the data in order to draw the correct conclusion and make the tuning adjustment.

For ford, they already had most of what was necessary as part of the oem sensor package, so I get it.

They didn't do the aftermarket any favors though. Kinda short-sighted if you ask me. A desert truck with an easily tuned in the aftermarket live valve suspension would garner the same rabid following that raptors have. it wouldn't surprise me if one of the other MFGs beat ford to it. All ford is interested in is EV crate motors for hot rods.

 

[NEOGARAGE]

At this point, this is literally me

 

[NEOGARAGE]

At this point, this is literally me

YOU CANT POST GIFS ON THIS FORUM!?