Will Catch Can still be necessary?

[Bartyboy]

So figured most everybody on here has a previous gen Raptor figured someone here might be best able to answer this. Given the need for catch can system was the original design of direct fuel injections lack of cleaning the valve stems with only the direct injection but they added port injection in later Gen. 2 models and will be on the Gen. 3 would it still be necessary to add a catch can system for new Gen. 3 I have on order?

Mate l have 2019 Raptor ARB put catch can in **** it collects is unreal speak to mechanics where your purchasing and they steer you in right direction
All best

 

[DINOZR]

Quoting @FordTechOne from one of the other 1000 threads on this topic, " A catch can is not needed unless you’re going to be using the truck for competition/high performance driving events. The factory PCV has an oil separator built into the valve cover. These engines are dual injection, meaning both port (conventional) and direct. This prevents carbon from building up in the intake ports and valves."

And @TwizzleStix , "
*SIGH* Unfortunately the majority of the moisture trapped in those catch cans are the result of the catch can setup itself. The hoses that attach it are prime areas for moisture condensation that collects in the can. Ever notice just how SHORT the OEM PCV hoses are. That's for a specific reason. I'm a firm believer in catch cans where actually needed in turbo-direct injection(only) engines, but the Raptor 3.5 doesn't have the usual direct injection problems because it also uses port injection. In fact, it operates on the port injection MOST of the time. The direct injection is used mainly under heavy loads, high(er) rpm situations where high-cylinder pressure detonation would be present on a port-only engine.

Obviously people can do whatever they want, but know that the Raptor 3.5 EB does NOT "need" a catch can setup at all."

I agree, it doesn't *need* a catch can.

If I accept the premise that "the longer hose causes more condensation" then I could accept that more water vapor is condensing to liquid form by virtue of the longer hoses of the catch can. But if that's true, the catch can is just condensing into liquid the vapor that is in the hose. So why is the material it condenses so oily? If the PCV valve has a properly functioning oil separator, why is the material in my catch can so oily? It seems to me that even if I buy the very simplified "longer hose = more condensation" then I still think there was always oil in the hose, regardless of how much water vapor condensed, and that oil was still headed for the intake.

And I could be wrong.

 

[Raptor911]

I agree, it doesn't *need* a catch can.

If I accept the premise that "the longer hose causes more condensation" then I could accept that more water vapor is condensing to liquid form by virtue of the longer hoses of the catch can. But if that's true, the catch can is just condensing into liquid the vapor that is in the hose. So why is the material it condenses so oily? If the PCV valve has a properly functioning oil separator, why is the material in my catch can so oily? It seems to me that even if I buy the very simplified "longer hose = more condensation" then I still think there was always oil in the hose, regardless of how much water vapor condensed, and that oil was still headed for the intake.

And I could be wrong.

sure looks like oil to me

 

[DFS]

I agree, it doesn't *need* a catch can.

If I accept the premise that "the longer hose causes more condensation" then I could accept that more water vapor is condensing to liquid form by virtue of the longer hoses of the catch can. But if that's true, the catch can is just condensing into liquid the vapor that is in the hose. So why is the material it condenses so oily? If the PCV valve has a properly functioning oil separator, why is the material in my catch can so oily? It seems to me that even if I buy the very simplified "longer hose = more condensation" then I still think there was always oil in the hose, regardless of how much water vapor condensed, and that oil was still headed for the intake.

And I could be wrong.

I'm not a fuel injection expert, and not claiming to have the answer. Simply highlighted two of the most sensible posts I saw from the other thread since FordTechOne is one of the most reliable resources on this forum. And the longer hose would explain some condensate, whether that should be there or not is also out of my realm of expertise. I have no experience or factual knowledge to add. I only wanted to direct people to the other thread before we go too deep down this circular rabbit hole. "what came first, the oil in the filter or the catch can?" LOL

 

[melvimbe]

I hear you. I have heard that reasoning before. But here's the thing. I am not a genius. I do not know everything about these trucks or physics or anything like that. I goof things up all the time. But I do have a degree in engineering which required me to take a bunch of classes: two classes in fluid mechanics, two classes in thermodynamics, two classes in physics, one class in chemistry, and a bunch of others...and I have never heard an explanation of the phenomenon that "the catch can itself causes the residue" that made sense given the other things I know. If somebody can explain something like, "The increased volume of the catch can and longer hoses causes less pressure throughout the system which causes..." then I'm completely onboard with changing my mind. There's a lot of smart people here, and that explanation may exist. But to date, I haven't heard an explanation that makes sense. But I do empty a shot glass of oil out of my catch can about every 2000 miles, so that's pretty convincing anecdotal evidence to me.

That's reasonable. However, it's also reasonable to do trust Ford engineers would have put an OEM catch can if it had a significant impact, one that they could market or reduce warranty repair costs. Then again, it's a maintenance item, so perhaps better to leave out if customers aren't going to empty the can and result in a situation.

Don't know. Like you said, this may be a case where both choices are reasonable.

 

[TwizzleStix]

I KNOW that stupid is infinite and follows ignorance into ultimate life failure that generally isn't realized until the stupid/ignorant person is dead.

 

[Sheeepdog18]

I ran a duel catch can system from Team RPX with a duel valve system on my 2017. At the time of purchase I asked them would it set off my engine light due to a vacuum lost at the the valve cover sensor and was told it would not ( that was a known problem when you install a catch can ). Well , it set off the engine light every time when I step on the gas hard i.e getting on the freeway or passing a car. After 5 thousand miles or so during an oil change, I’ve check my catch can and didn’t see any “oil” in them. So to me I think it’s a gimmick. I have call RPX numerous time regarding the engine to a point they just don’t respond back to the problem. If I have to do it all over again, I would just leave it stock and spend my money somewhere else.

 

[MTF]

The catch can removes much more crap like additives that's in the fuel and bad fuel in general.
If you use good oil and change often then there won't be much engine oil in the catch can.
I've been collecting the crap that comes out of my catch can and you can see that it's 99% crap and 1% oil mist that it collected.
And 90% of this crap is from the winter months with the winter blend fuel that they sell us.

Starting spring 2014


Spring 2016 two years worth

 

[MTF]

I ran a duel catch can system from Team RPX with a duel valve system on my 2017. At the time of purchase I asked them would it set off my engine light due to a vacuum lost at the the valve cover sensor and was told it would not ( that was a known problem when you install a catch can ). Well , it set off the engine light every time when I step on the gas hard i.e getting on the freeway or passing a car. After 5 thousand miles or so during an oil change, I’ve check my catch can and didn’t see any “oil” in them. So to me I think it’s a gimmick. I have call RPX numerous time regarding the engine to a point they just don’t respond back to the problem. If I have to do it all over again, I would just leave it stock and spend my money somewhere else.

You have a major vacuum leak, they were not working that's for sure!!!!

 

[sixshooter_45]

If you want your intake to be as clean as it was initially intended prior to the EPA got involved and instructed all manufacturers reroute the blow-by back into the intake then install a catch can.

Yes port injection takes care of the back of the valves but what about the rest of the intake and all the associated parts?

If you don't think it's necessary don't install one.