Will Catch Can still be necessary?

[pat247]

I was told by the SA at my local Ford store that they had received a service bulletin for the ecoBoost motors and the intake tract needed to be cleaned every 20k miles using a procedure like seafoam. This was not in the owners manual of either the 2011 or 2012 ecoBoost f150's that I owned and this policy may have changed since ford added port injection.

A catch can will reduce the amount of oil that gets into the intake tract plain and simple and a poorly designed system can cause a vacuum leak. A catch can should not cause a change in vacuum at all. If a 4x volume increase in the PCV hose causes water vapor to form in a 200 degree engine I'll be a monkeys uncle. I have to empty the cup of my Moroso catch can 3 times between 5k oil changes and it is alway pure oil and nothing like what MTF posted. Even in the winter I get very little moisture in the PCV oil collected.

 

[MTF]

I was told by the SA at my local Ford store that they had received a service bulletin for the ecoBoost motors and the intake tract needed to be cleaned every 20k miles using a procedure like seafoam. This was not in the owners manual of either the 2011 or 2012 ecoBoost f150's that I owned and this policy may have changed since ford added port injection.

A catch can will reduce the amount of oil that gets into the intake tract plain and simple and a poorly designed system can cause a vacuum leak. A catch can should not cause a change in vacuum at all. If a 4x volume increase in the PCV hose causes water vapor to form in a 200 degree engine I'll be a monkeys uncle. I have to empty the cup of my Moroso catch can 3 times between 5k oil changes and it is alway pure oil and nothing like what MTF posted. Even in the winter I get very little moisture in the PCV oil collected.

I don't believe it's all oil you seeing, unless your having to add oil between oil changes.
Then you have something else going on.

It could be the type of oil you're using and the type of gasoline is making it stay mixed longer.
Plus, keep in mind that it takes about a month for that separation to start happen like I'm showing.
Try it yourself, collect it in a Snapple bottle or something and leave it on the shelf.

 

[pat247]

I don't believe it's all oil you seeing, unless your having to add oil between oil changes.
Then you have something else going on.

It could be the type of oil you're using and the type of gasoline is making it stay mixed longer.
Plus, keep in mind that it takes about a month for that separation to start happen like I'm showing.
Try it yourself, collect it in a Snapple bottle or something and leave it on the shelf.

Now that I think about it your yank logic might be on to something so lets look at the facts. I live in Oklahoma, we have pure gas as in no ethanol. I use Motorcraft full synthetic oil and no I don't need to add oil between changes. I have 159,789.8 trouble free miles on my truck, nada, nothing, zilch, haven't even had to changed the spark plugs yet.

On the other hand I believe your truck is low mileage, on it's second engine and had numerous other problems. You live in the NE USA so gas isn't that great. You use discount oil that you buy in bulk to save a buck. You post pics of watery oil that came out of your engine.

I can see where you would conclude there might be a problem on my end. asheslowlybacksawayfromhiscomputer

 

[MTF]

Now that I think about it your yank logic might be on to something so lets look at the facts. I live in Oklahoma, we have pure gas as in no ethanol. I use Motorcraft full synthetic oil and no I don't need to add oil between changes. I have 159,789.8 trouble free miles on my truck, nada, nothing, zilch, haven't even had to changed the spark plugs yet.

On the other hand I believe your truck is low mileage, on it's second engine and had numerous other problems. You live in the NE USA so gas isn't that great. You use discount oil that you buy in bulk to save a buck. You post pics of watery oil that came out of your engine.

I can see where you would conclude there might be a problem on my end. asheslowlybacksawayfromhiscomputer

W.T.F., why are you being an A.S.S???
I never said you have a problem, I said "if you have to add oil in between changes then you may have a problem"
If you emptying your catch can so much and you're not adding oil, what do you think all that liquid is (very smart person)???
There is no such thing as pure gas at your local gas station, all gasoline has additives in it.

If you take a good look at my pictures you see the oil sitting on top the rest is most likely water from condensation when warming up and the additives from fuel.

Now, where do you get I have numerous problems?
My first engine went because of oil pump gear failure, my second new engine has 30,000+ of trouble free miles.
I have zero issues with my truck, now that I upgraded the oil pump gears.

Oh and super genius, I always use Mobil 1 Extended Performance oil.

You have a wonderful day

 

[avalanchegrey]

Quoting @FordTechOne from one of the other 1000 threads on this topic, " A catch can is not needed unless you’re going to be using the truck for competition/high performance driving events. The factory PCV has an oil separator built into the valve cover. These engines are dual injection, meaning both port (conventional) and direct. This prevents carbon from building up in the intake ports and valves."

And @TwizzleStix , "
*SIGH* Unfortunately the majority of the moisture trapped in those catch cans are the result of the catch can setup itself. The hoses that attach it are prime areas for moisture condensation that collects in the can. Ever notice just how SHORT the OEM PCV hoses are. That's for a specific reason. I'm a firm believer in catch cans where actually needed in turbo-direct injection(only) engines, but the Raptor 3.5 doesn't have the usual direct injection problems because it also uses port injection. In fact, it operates on the port injection MOST of the time. The direct injection is used mainly under heavy loads, high(er) rpm situations where high-cylinder pressure detonation would be present on a port-only engine.

Obviously people can do whatever they want, but know that the Raptor 3.5 EB does NOT "need" a catch can setup at all."

Thank you. We can now once again close this one till the next dejavu.

 

[Ragnar]

Yet again.

 

[MTF]

Thank you. We can now once again close this one till the next dejavu.

Yes, we now established that a catch can is necessary in keeping your engine at peak performance.

Since it's only a small baffle added to the valve cover (not a catch can) surrounding the PCV,
to help knock down the oil mist and crap down to droplets and right back into your engine oil, thus degrading the viscosity.

Now if you don't do any Tuning mods and only drive at the mall doing mall crawling than I guess you don't need it.
You and your truck isn't worth it anyway.

 

[FordTechOne]

I was told by the SA at my local Ford store that they had received a service bulletin for the ecoBoost motors and the intake tract needed to be cleaned every 20k miles using a procedure like seafoam. This was not in the owners manual of either the 2011 or 2012 ecoBoost f150's that I owned and this policy may have changed since ford added port injection.

A catch can will reduce the amount of oil that gets into the intake tract plain and simple and a poorly designed system can cause a vacuum leak. A catch can should not cause a change in vacuum at all. If a 4x volume increase in the PCV hose causes water vapor to form in a 200 degree engine I'll be a monkeys uncle. I have to empty the cup of my Moroso catch can 3 times between 5k oil changes and it is alway pure oil and nothing like what MTF posted. Even in the winter I get very little moisture in the PCV oil collected.

There is no Ford service bulletin for cleaning the intact tract every 20k miles, or at any mileage for that matter. That’s a dealership offered service and it’s not necessary.

The two things critical to keeping the intake and valves clean on a Gen 1 3.5 EB are as follows:

- Change engine oil at the specified interval using full synthetic
- Use only Top Tier Gasoline https://www.toptiergas.com/

The factory PCV is not like the older systems that used a simple rattle valve. The valve cover has a built in air/oil separator with baffles to prevent liquid oil from being drawn out. Moisture, combustion byproducts, and oil vapor are drawn through the PCV valve and into the intake tract to be burned.

Catch cans create a false positive because the vapor condenses in the lines instead of being drawn into the intake. That condensed mixture then pools in the catch can itself, which makes it appear that the catch can prevented that mixture of liquid from being drawn through the intake. That is of course misleading, because it would have entered the intake as a vapor.

High Performance Driving (HPD) and racing applications may benefit from a catch can in certain applications due to the duty cycle in which the engine spends a significant amount of time at max speed and load, which can drastically increase crankcase pressures. It’s a case by case basis though, some engines are fine with the factory system while others may overwhelm it.

 

[Dtsgli]

If a catch can was necessary it would come from the factory with one.

Factory only cares about issue free engines through the factory coverage. After that they could care less. This is why they don’t invest in it from the factory, even if they see it as a benefit.

 

[FordTechOne]

Factory only cares about issue free engines through the factory coverage. After that they could care less. This is why they don’t invest in it from the factory, even if they see it as a benefit.

Not true at all. If a catch can was necessary, issues would show up well before 5 years or 60k miles. There are tens of thousands of these engines with high mileage running the factory PCV system with no issues.