Why so much oil?

[BoostCreep]

Ford performance claims it's for the angles and offroading. Just passing info.

Let's get back to what you said on stable oil, not true. Fluid dynamics 101- more fluid- more heat soak and that heat takes longer to de rease under a severe load. If you wanted to decrease heat fast then you would want a larger cooler and less oil as possible. Example:
My mclaren 600 only uses 7 quarts and it's a v8. The oil cooler is massive.

Your McLaren uses a dry sump, the predator in both the R and 500 does not. That’s a significant difference in how the vehicle is able to handle high g forces in cornering. More oil is needed on a wet sump to maintain pressure vs a dry sump.

I’m not saying the higher capacity does not help in high angle off road conditions, but the higher capacity was also required to keep the pickup submerged in high g load events on track in the 500. Same motor, same capacity. Very different use cases so different pickup and wet sump designs.

The McLaren is also a 3.8L, 27% smaller displacement than the predator, and only 8% larger than the 3.5 EcoBoost, but uses 16% more oil than the 3.5, despite both being DOHC twin turbo motors. So your McLaren uses more oil per liter than the 3.5, so please tell me more about using as little oil as possible to reduce “heat soak.” The thermal mass of the oil is managed by coolers in all the cases we’re talking about so once it’s soaked with heat it’s stable, the higher capacity is needed to keep more stable temps and reduce oil pressure variations under load and g forces.

 

[BoostCreep]

They are tiny engines for the cylinder displacement. Any engine builder would tend to agree. Normal to large v8"s are 7.3 and higher. The 5.2 is small- not talking bad it is what it is. Shoot back in the day 4.3l etc were the typical v6's.
I'm just passing info on what fp said about the oil capacity. It's crazy because my 6.7 diesel holds not much more essentially.
On a side note- my rs5 is a micro size 2.9l v6- oil capacity? 8 quarts. It's a porsche engine and no idea why they use this much.

I don’t think you’re appreciating what @FordTechOne is talking about regarding “engine size”. We’re not talking displacement here but physical size. The 5.2 predator is physically larger than the 7.3 Godzilla due to DOHC vs single cam pushrod design. Look at how small a typical LS is in relation to displacement.

 

[cr23raptor1983]

Your McLaren uses a dry sump, the predator in both the R and 500 does not. That’s a significant difference in how the vehicle is able to handle high g forces in cornering. More oil is needed on a wet sump to maintain pressure vs a dry sump.

I’m not saying the higher capacity does not help in high angle off road conditions, but the higher capacity was also required to keep the pickup submerged in high g load events on track in the 500. Same motor, same capacity. Very different use cases so different pickup and wet sump designs.

The McLaren is also a 3.8L, 27% smaller displacement than the predator, and only 8% larger than the 3.5 EcoBoost, but uses 16% more oil than the 3.5, despite both being DOHC twin turbo motors. So your McLaren uses more oil per liter than the 3.5, so please tell me more about using as little oil as possible to reduce “heat soak.” The thermal mass of the oil is managed by coolers in all the cases we’re talking about so once it’s soaked with heat it’s stable, the higher capacity is needed to keep more stable temps and reduce oil pressure variations under load and g forces.

These percentages mean nothing. When I was at the track day- mac techs inspect the car before going out and so forth. Had some good talks on the oil, lubricate etc. It's the oil coolers that are on the car that makes it super efficient when running the engine hard(oil temps stay right at 195-197 no matter what the outside temps are etc etc). If the car had more oil capacity- they couldn't achieve the solid oil temps. Yes it's a dry sump... but fluid dynamics and heat topic does not change.

 

[cr23raptor1983]

I don’t think you’re appreciating what @FordTechOne is talking about regarding “engine size”. We’re not talking displacement here but physical size. The 5.2 predator is physically larger than the 7.3 Godzilla due to DOHC vs single cam pushrod design. Look at how small a typical LS is in relation to displacement.

I am appreciating it. Fordtechone is a good guy and smart. I'm just going off what fp told us when talking about the 5.2.

 

[BoostCreep]

I am appreciating it. Fordtechone is a good guy and smart. I'm just going off what fp told us when talking about the 5.2.

They were talking about the sump and pickup design being redone for the off road application. The capacity was set by the GT500 development team and left unchanged.

 

[BoostCreep]

These percentages mean nothing. When I was at the track day- mac techs inspect the car before going out and so forth. Had some good talks on the oil, lubricate etc. It's the oil coolers that are on the car that makes it super efficient when running the engine hard(oil temps stay right at 195-197 no matter what the outside temps are etc etc). If the car had more oil capacity- they couldn't achieve the solid oil temps. Yes it's a dry sump... but fluid dynamics and heat topic does not change.

This has nothing to do with fluid dynamics.

 

[cr23raptor1983]

This has nothing to do with fluid dynamics.

Ok.
"Fluid dynamics can be used to study heat transfer, which is the movement of heat energy from a hotter area to a cooler area through a fluid. This process is called convection and can occur in both liquids and gases. The rate of heat transfer is affected by the fluid's velocity and turbulence, as well as the rapidity of boiling."

Straight from an oil/viscosity book via google.

 

[BoostCreep]

Ok.
"Fluid dynamics can be used to study heat transfer, which is the movement of heat energy from a hotter area to a cooler area through a fluid. This process is called convection and can occur in both liquids and gases. The rate of heat transfer is affected by the fluid's velocity and turbulence, as well as the rapidity of boiling."

Straight from an oil/viscosity book via google.

Not sure what the source is, but the way I learned it fluid, thermo, and heat transfer are separate courses. They all cover separate topics.

 

[shigman]

FT1 was talking more about valve train oiling needs comparing a big displacement push rod or simpler valved engine vs a DOHC/more complicated valve train motor. After seeing his post, it’s understandable the 5.0 coyote takes a lot of oil too. 8-9 quarts from what I remember. With 11 quarts id recon its enough with standard cooling to keep most use cases perfectly fine.

I’d bet 100 bucks McLarens weren’t designed with the thought that users would possibly follow a 10K mile oil change interval and probably need an oil change once or twice a year with only 1-3K miles on the clock. Ford has to deal with someone driving a GT500 or R 20K miles a year and having warranty out to 60K miles or beyond.