GEN 2 Whipple Stage 1 Kit Feedback Thread!

[OPT PRIME]

I always had Shell 93 in it since day 1 and never normally run it below 1/2 and did that just to get the octane booster out.



What numbers in the data should I pay attention to so I know when it’s pinging/Knocking and what is normal vs Problem?

Here is one page of a 16 page .csv file from a Tomahawk log during a long sustained full power run.

Knock detection is 0 during this pull. Also notice timing is about 5* BTDC during the upper RPM range, the computer drops this to 1 during the shift.



If you look at your pull the ECU is reporting knock and your timing appears to be pulled (firing later), in this case I presume negative meaning after top dead center.

IOW, your computer was unable to extract the predicted timing off the map (power and dynamic compression) because the fuel was pre-igniting, too lean for the octane at hand.

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[10SpdsOfFury]

Gotcha so I want it 0’s and my 1.5-5.9 is not idea.

I appreciate the help and input.

 

[mad man]

Took the risk and had the ford dealership do the install. They have a custom performance division. The only thing they were concerned with was if it has a carb EO #. And it does. So Ford can’t say it was improperly installed. I feel that’s my best chance of warranty preservation . I’ve been told these trucks log EVERYTHING on the ECM! They were impressed with the kit ,as am I. So far so good, I will post updates as time goes on.

 

[Gsteve]

Took the risk and had the ford dealership do the install. They have a custom performance division. The only thing they were concerned with was if it has a carb EO #. And it does. So Ford can’t say it was improperly installed. I feel that’s my best chance of warranty preservation . I’ve been told these trucks log EVERYTHING on the ECM! They were impressed with the kit ,as am I. So far so good, I will post updates as time goes on.

thats the route id go , im not very trusting of this eb yet.

 

[OPT PRIME]

Gotcha so I want it 0’s and my 1.5-5.9 is not idea.



I appreciate the help and input.

You are welcome. I hope it's correct and the post is based on my understanding of what the nomenclature is within the Tomahawk.

Another possibility, rare, something loose can cause a metallic rattle that is picked up by the sensors.

Yes, knock detection should be .5 to 0. Basically minimally detected as the ECU is constantly trying to add timing.


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[Guy]

You do know that stock...

Knock retard can hit -5 depending on your fuel quality.

If whipple has managed to keep your ECM pegged with 0 knock retard.... they’ve managed to make horsepower without advancing the timing. This would imply they did it through a leaner A/F and perhaps more peak boost in lower RPMS. The stock expected boost is 20 and you aren’t going to push the stock turbos past it.



QUOTE=OPT PRIME;1233400]You are welcome. I hope it's correct and the post is based on my understanding of what the nomenclature is within the Tomahawk.

Another possibility, rare, something loose can cause a metallic rattle that is picked up by the sensors.

Yes, knock detection should be .5 to 0. Basically minimally detected as the ECU is constantly trying to add timing.


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[10SpdsOfFury]

I emailed Whipple some questions about what I have been dealing with and sent them my Data Captures, going to see what they say. I also asked them if there is a way to flash back to stock.

 

[OPT PRIME]

You do know that stock...

Knock retard can hit -5 depending on your fuel quality.

If whipple has managed to keep your ECM pegged with 0 knock retard.... they’ve managed to make horsepower without advancing the timing. This would imply they did it through a leaner A/F and perhaps more peak boost in lower RPMS.

10spds was pulling -5. The question is, is that value knock retard, like you would see on an ECUTEK download, or knock detection? We don't know yet however one leads to another.

Most of the dynos tend to indicate that tunes are making a lot of power under the curve earlier on. As far as lean making power, sure. However lean also makes NO2 jump from an emissions stand point and extra heat can tend to roast the upstream cats.

Back when I was a Vette track guy dealing with 11.3:1 the technician asked me about catalytic overheat protection. He had mentioned disabling it on a ZR1 and it cooked the cats within a few laps. He wasn't sure an NA engine would suffer the same fate, it didn't. The algo inside the computer derives cat temps and eventually start dumping fuel to lower the exhaust temps. If my memory serves me correctly it was likely a 20% increase.

Anyways, that's a long way around explaining why Whipple may NOT have just leaned a tune in a vehicle that needs to be able to tow, deal with high cylinder pressures, sustained exhaust temperatures and CARB emissions compliance.




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[Guy]

Fords knock detention and algorithm is super sensitive.

It’s full on knock retard.

It’s impressivd that Whipple has pulled off the power that they made, living in an ecosystem that is handcuffed as you’ve pointed out.

It’s also why it’s not the fastest tune, but you are getting what you pay for... a ton of R&D, testing, and 50 state legality.

10spds was pulling -5. The question is, is that value knock retard, like you would see on an ECUTEK download, or knock detection? We don't know yet however one leads to another.

Most of the dynos tend to indicate that tunes are making a lot of power under the curve earlier on. As far as lean making power, sure. However lean also makes NO2 jump from an emissions stand point and extra heat can tend to roast the upstream cats.

Back when I was a Vette track guy dealing with 11.3:1 the technician asked me about catalytic overheat protection. He had mentioned disabling it on a ZR1 and it cooked the cats within a few laps. He wasn't sure an NA engine would suffer the same fate, it didn't. The algo inside the computer derives cat temps and eventually start dumping fuel to lower the exhaust temps. If my memory serves me correctly it was likely a 20% increase.

Anyways, that's a long way around explaining why Whipple may NOT have just leaned a tune in a vehicle that needs to be able to tow, deal with high cylinder pressures, sustained exhaust temperatures and CARB emissions compliance.




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[10SpdsOfFury]

Just a quick update.


I got a email back from Jeff at Whipple asking me for my vin because he wants to see what Verson I have, I explained ford updated my ECM before I copied the factory tune and sent it to him so it should be the newest.


His reply was “We received updated files today and see how it runs“ and sent me the file links to download and put in the tomahawk. I will be back home tomorrow and will flash the new tune in and see how she runs.


I am probably wrong but it almost sounded like Ford engineers sent them new tunes? Lol