Tune plus downpipes, worth it??

[RaptorFlipper]

Sexy,

You are right. unless we get some before and after this will continue to be people's opinions with no way to substantiate any of them. Really sucks. I just want to know the truth. The folks i use agree with you. They say it absolutely makes a difference.

 

[FORZDA 1]

I say, if it makes you happy and you think it's helping, then do whatever you want.

I'm not new to turbocharging, or supercharging either, and I've done several engine builds and countless bolt-on mods to help "flow" and "breathing" on some engines and if it worked, I stated it, and if it didn't I stated that too.

I KNOW it doesn't help on the Raptor 3.5 Ecoboost OR the 1.6 Ecoboost while running the STOCK turbos. The Ecoboost engine FAMILY are developed to have lots of torque lower in the revs, so the turbochargers selected are very small so the boost builds very early in the revs and actually tapers off significantly as the revs rise. Some of it is due to the tuning itself and much of it is due to the small(er) turbine housing.

If you think the 2.5" piping is too small, you will have a heart attack if you pull the turbo and take a look at the turbine inlet and outlet size. The max boost (and "flow") is limited by the turbine size ability to allow enough exhaust gas through to prevent the exhaust manifold pressure from running significantly higher than the intake manifold pressure. This condition allows exhaust reversion that will trigger a single detonation event strong enough to break the piston and collapse the rod. I know from first hand experience...



You can take the exhaust pipe OFF the turbo and run straight out of the turbine and it will NOT make more power because the exhaust piping is NOT the limit. The turbine itself (ON THE FORD ECOBOOST) is the limiting factor. Refer to the first sentence above for the "feels" better.

 

[SexyAvalancheGrey]

No outlet or inlet I have ever seen on a turbo is close to a 3-4 inch size piping. Take a Gt30 for example which is a good sized turbo is at most a ~2 inch outlet. Also having zero back pressure is not always the best ala your comment about no piping. In my opinion it comes down to the tuning, I prefer my tunes to be more mid to top end, im looking for whats under the curve, not everything is about peak horsepower, but if im picking up 15whp at 4-6k rpm thats where I want it, but your tuner might not be tuning that way which is where a downpipes will shine more. Also you had detonation because you had a bad tuner, end of the day (if all parts were running proper that is, fuel/air).......

Also MPT sounds like a shop that just sends out their box tunes and doesn't nit pick more so for each individual mod.

Btw looking forward to the FMIC, I appreciate you shipping so fast that was awesome!!

I say, if it makes you happy and you think it's helping, then do whatever you want.

I'm not new to turbocharging, or supercharging either, and I've done several engine builds and countless bolt-on mods to help "flow" and "breathing" on some engines and if it worked, I stated it, and if it didn't I stated that too.

I KNOW it doesn't help on the Raptor 3.5 Ecoboost OR the 1.6 Ecoboost while running the STOCK turbos. The Ecoboost engine FAMILY are developed to have lots of torque lower in the revs, so the turbochargers selected are very small so the boost builds very early in the revs and actually tapers off significantly as the revs rise. Some of it is due to the tuning itself and much of it is due to the small(er) turbine housing.

If you think the 2.5" piping is too small, you will have a heart attack if you pull the turbo and take a look at the turbine inlet and outlet size. The max boost (and "flow") is limited by the turbine size ability to allow enough exhaust gas through to prevent the exhaust manifold pressure from running significantly higher than the intake manifold pressure. This condition allows exhaust reversion that will trigger a single detonation event strong enough to break the piston and collapse the rod. I know from first hand experience...

View attachment 114027

You can take the exhaust pipe OFF the turbo and run straight out of the turbine and it will NOT make more power because the exhaust piping is NOT the limit. The turbine itself (ON THE FORD ECOBOOST) is the limiting factor. Refer to the first sentence above for the "feels" better.

 

[SexyAvalancheGrey]

When I get my downpipes installed I will see if he can run it next store and get a before and after untuned. (baseline vs DP only)

 

[smurfslayer]

I can guarantee from previous life experience that even with your back to back dyno numbers, there will be some who will assert the results are invalid because .. well, they’ll come up with some excuse. There’s no value to trying to convince others your results are either valid or not, the dyno is not the end all, be all of tuning; it’s a tuning tool. A useful one, but it’s a tool.

The point about peak numbers isn’t insignificant either but, I think with the Rap’s stock turbos, we’re going to top out the turbos before the exhaust becomes a significant impediment.

Someone dyno this stuff already, so we can argue about something else.

 

[FORZDA 1]

Btw looking forward to the FMIC, I appreciate you shipping so fast that was awesome!!

No worries. It should be there tomorrow!

 

[M3sparky]

No outlet or inlet I have ever seen on a turbo is close to a 3-4 inch size piping. Take a Gt30 for example which is a good sized turbo is at most a ~2 inch outlet. Also having zero back pressure is not always the best ala your comment about no piping. In my opinion it comes down to the tuning, I prefer my tunes to be more mid to top end, im looking for whats under the curve, not everything is about peak horsepower, but if im picking up 15whp at 4-6k rpm thats where I want it, but your tuner might not be tuning that way which is where a downpipes will shine more. Also you had detonation because you had a bad tuner, end of the day (if all parts were running proper that is, fuel/air).......

Also MPT sounds like a shop that just sends out their box tunes and doesn't nit pick more so for each individual mod.

Btw looking forward to the FMIC, I appreciate you shipping so fast that was awesome!!

your wrong on mpt shipping a box with preset tunes. they send the guage, but it doesnt come with any tunes on it, you first have to send them your stock file, and also tell them all the mods you have, and then tell them what 3 different types of tunes you want to have. and if you down the road decide you want to change your downpipe or whatever , you just email them of your change and pay for a tune update and get a new tune that will support your current mods. let me tell you if you have e85 around you, and e30 tune will blow the downpipe mod out of the water. im loving it way more than the 91 octane tune, im curious to dyno it to see what hp im getting between the two maps. but if your going to do a catless downpipe mod, pleasssee do a stock dyno and then a dyno with catless downpipe using the same same dyno of course, so we can see the difference. if doing a dyno with a tune, would also be nice to see results with stock /aftermarket downpipe results, as many here have been wanting to see this data.

 

[SexyAvalancheGrey]

your wrong on mpt shipping a box with preset tunes. they send the guage, but it doesnt come with any tunes on it, you first have to send them your stock file, and also tell them all the mods you have, and then tell them what 3 different types of tunes you want to have. and if you down the road decide you want to change your downpipe or whatever , you just email them of your change and pay for a tune update and get a new tune that will support your current mods. let me tell you if you have e85 around you, and e30 tune will blow the downpipe mod out of the water. im loving it way more than the 91 octane tune, im curious to dyno it to see what hp im getting between the two maps. but if your going to do a catless downpipe mod, pleasssee do a stock dyno and then a dyno with catless downpipe using the same same dyno of course, so we can see the difference. if doing a dyno with a tune, would also be nice to see results with stock /aftermarket downpipe results, as many here have been wanting to see this data.

It depends upon the dyno availability which is in the shop next door and how long he is gonna take to install. My builder usually likes to bang out bolt on parts real fast because he just fits it in between the big builds he is normally doing, he is a 1 man show and does some outrageous custom work, true artwork. I don't mind forking up the money for the dyno time to help the community but it will depend more on him. Id love to have everything same day, baseline, Downpipe then tune.

 

[BangBang]

It depends upon the dyno availability which is in the shop next door and how long he is gonna take to install. My builder usually likes to bang out bolt on parts real fast because he just fits it in between the big builds he is normally doing, he is a 1 man show and does some outrageous custom work, true artwork. I don't mind forking up the money for the dyno time to help the community but it will depend more on him. Id love to have everything same day, baseline, Downpipe then tune.

I appreciate your efforts of the dyno info.

 

[BADASSRAPTOR]

I appreciate your efforts of the dyno info.

Any new actual dyno numbers available?!?


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