SilverBolt
Hired Gun
I am not experiencing any torque steer issues either. When I read about the issue some were having I went out to try and replicate it. Nothing out of the ordinary. Tried both 4A and 4HI, no issue.
GEN 2 Should order the front axle with TORSEN® Differential $500
- Thread starter 64-bit
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I am not experiencing any torque steer issues either. When I read about the issue some were having I went out to try and replicate it. Nothing out of the ordinary. Tried both 4A and 4HI, no issue.
It is amazing how sensitive FRF can be when anyone points out a criticism of the Raptor. It's just a ******* truck and it is most definitely not perfect.
Without a doubt there is pronounced torque steer because of the Torsen diff. By design it transfers torque to the slower moving wheel. In a turn, this is the inside wheel. Applying additional power to the inside wheel creates a yaw force that counters the turn. This is physics, not opinion.
If a Raptor doesn't exhibit this centering pull in 4A, either the Torsen diff is broken, or it doesn't have one.
As for how noticeable and bothersome it is depends on your background. Those coming from Jeeps or other trucks are used to heavy and vague steering. Other Raptor owners are accustomed to European sports cars and prefer precise and balanced steering.
I think the Raptor handles well for what it is. But IMO the Torsen diff prevents 4A from being the everyday AWD mode that it was supposed to be.
Without a doubt there is pronounced torque steer because of the Torsen diff. By design it transfers torque to the slower moving wheel. In a turn, this is the inside wheel. Applying additional power to the inside wheel creates a yaw force that counters the turn. This is physics, not opinion.
If a Raptor doesn't exhibit this centering pull in 4A, either the Torsen diff is broken, or it doesn't have one.
As for how noticeable and bothersome it is depends on your background. Those coming from Jeeps or other trucks are used to heavy and vague steering. Other Raptor owners are accustomed to European sports cars and prefer precise and balanced steering.
I think the Raptor handles well for what it is. But IMO the Torsen diff prevents 4A from being the everyday AWD mode that it was supposed to be.
Ok, me as a BMW RWD die hard owner, I dont see myself driving this truck in 4A unless it is snowing heavily or I'm doing some type off-road, in those two situations I could care less about the torque steering.
BUT, the main reason I'm buying this truck it is to get me out of issues like snow and mud that the BMW would be stuck forever.
I recently got divorced and I see myself caring kids bikes and other stuff in my M3, also I being caring more people with me on travels (friends, kids and chicks), where the M3 is just not cutting anymore.
I wished I had the $$$ to have both, but that is not the case anymore.
And since I care about the resale value, I dont want to miss such important option if it makes sense to die hard Raptor buyers.
Got it?
Diehard Raptor owners account for less than 10% of Raptor buyers (my guess). The overwhelming majority of people buy Raptors because they look cool and most won't ever see a dirt road, let alone a hardcore trail. I doubt the Torsen will affect resale value since most Raptor buyers don't even know what it is.
It will make a difference if you try to sell the Raptor on FRF, but it won't make a lick of difference on Craigslist.
It is not that $500 or $8/month payment that worries me, the point is, it is a worth option to have, is it useful?
After all the answers, the resolution was YES.
I have ordered with it, that is all and now I'm happy that I did after learned what it really does.
Hello 64-bit,
There were some Gen 1 issues with the Torsen front diff causing problems with the premature CV joint failures. This is an inherent weakness with independent front suspension systems having limited slip or locking differentials and why most of them don't.
Below is one of the threads discussing the issue. I'm not sure if Ford made updates to the Gen 2 to address this problems but if you plan on driving hard off road it's something to consider.
I'm not saying the Torsen bad and don't get it more traction is always good, just letting you know there are some potential problems that may show up later.
http://www.fordraptorforum.com/165871-post54.html
There were some Gen 1 issues with the Torsen front diff causing problems with the premature CV joint failures. This is an inherent weakness with independent front suspension systems having limited slip or locking differentials and why most of them don't.
Below is one of the threads discussing the issue. I'm not sure if Ford made updates to the Gen 2 to address this problems but if you plan on driving hard off road it's something to consider.
I'm not saying the Torsen bad and don't get it more traction is always good, just letting you know there are some potential problems that may show up later.
http://www.fordraptorforum.com/165871-post54.html
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Ditchplains1
FRF Addict
jaz13,
I cannot commenton"4A" as my Raptor is a Gen1 and does not have the AWD option.
However your assertion that you are experiencing significant torque steer is a reflection of the situation not needing it. In dry conditions with great traction yes you will experience some torque steer...however you need to drive a 4 wheel drive truck with the front end locked on dry roads to be able to understand significant; indeed your impression will then be there is MINIMAL torque steer in those conditions with the Torsen front diff.
More importantly if you are experiencing torque steer in 4A, it is a reflection of the conditions NOT requiring 4A!
Drive on a snow packed road at speed with the truck in 4 wd, and you will experience NO torque steer, and sure steering in conditions that warrant 4A or 4 wd...
Eddie
I cannot commenton"4A" as my Raptor is a Gen1 and does not have the AWD option.
However your assertion that you are experiencing significant torque steer is a reflection of the situation not needing it. In dry conditions with great traction yes you will experience some torque steer...however you need to drive a 4 wheel drive truck with the front end locked on dry roads to be able to understand significant; indeed your impression will then be there is MINIMAL torque steer in those conditions with the Torsen front diff.
More importantly if you are experiencing torque steer in 4A, it is a reflection of the conditions NOT requiring 4A!
Drive on a snow packed road at speed with the truck in 4 wd, and you will experience NO torque steer, and sure steering in conditions that warrant 4A or 4 wd...
Eddie
It seems you are unaware 4A is marketed as a 24/7/364 setting, intended to bring full-time AWD to the Raptor regardless of road surface or condition. And when paired with an open diff, it works exactly as advertised. It performs just like any other full-time AWD found in modern minivans, sedans, and SUVs.
But when paired with the Torsen diff, a device you won't find in any other full-time AWD setup, the limited slip action of the Torsen diff actively resists driver inputs. Nothing wrong with that, it is simply a tradeoff for having a mechanical LSD.
But for myself and many other FRF members, this steering feedback is annoying and makes 4A unsuitable for 24/7/365 use. As a result, I use 4A exactly like I would use 4H, reserved only for slippery surfaces.
The OP asked if he should get a Torsen, everyone said yes. All I was doing was pointing out the downside of the Torsen. And then everyone lost their shit because apparently the Raptor is flawless and criticizing any part of it is against forum rules.
Ditchplains1
FRF Addict
jaz13,
The Raptor is not perfect; just better than any other factory produced truck. By FAR!
We're saying the same thing. Using 4A in normal conditions is unnecessary and you will experience some torque bias at slow speeds when turning. I have not read the Gen2 owner's manual, but I doubt that they RECOMMEND 4A in normal driving conditions.
I believe that your use of 4A is as FORD intended.
If you think we worship the Raptor...look at the battles between the 6.2 V8 dinosaurs and the 3.5 TT V6's.
If you ever get the chance to drive a car/truck with a true front locker on dry pavement, don't pass up the on the opportunity. Even better with manual steering. With the front tires locked both tires pull at the same rate. Turning the steering wheel is like a suggestion rather than a command!
Eddie
The Raptor is not perfect; just better than any other factory produced truck. By FAR!
We're saying the same thing. Using 4A in normal conditions is unnecessary and you will experience some torque bias at slow speeds when turning. I have not read the Gen2 owner's manual, but I doubt that they RECOMMEND 4A in normal driving conditions.
I believe that your use of 4A is as FORD intended.
If you think we worship the Raptor...look at the battles between the 6.2 V8 dinosaurs and the 3.5 TT V6's.
If you ever get the chance to drive a car/truck with a true front locker on dry pavement, don't pass up the on the opportunity. Even better with manual steering. With the front tires locked both tires pull at the same rate. Turning the steering wheel is like a suggestion rather than a command!
Eddie
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