GEN 2 Should order the front axle with TORSEN® Differential $500

[bumwhine]

The continued misuse of "LSD" to describe a Torsen differential confirms your ignorance. Torsens are helical differentials, ATBs, not LSDs. They have no slip, they bind internally and bias torque.

I'm not going to claim to be able to tout off which differential each manufacturer wants to use for their front differentials, but Audi for instance has S-tronic clutch packs in the front/rear for active torque vectoring with a Torsen center differential. My point was this: nobody swaps from a Torsen or LSD to an open differential. Nobody. You see a sizeable product line from Wavetrac/ Quaife/ Torsen/ Carbonetic/ OSGiken/ ATS/ Yukon/ Eaton/ etc. for both front and rear applications because open differentials are stupid and don't perform. Quit conflating your preference for grocery getting with what's preferable for performance.

 

[jaz13]

The continued misuse of "LSD" to describe a Torsen differential confirms your ignorance. Torsens are helical differentials, ATBs, not LSDs. They have no slip, they bind internally and bias torque.

I'm not going to claim to be able to tout off which differential each manufacturer wants to use for their front differentials, but Audi for instance has S-tronic clutch packs in the front/rear for active torque vectoring with a Torsen center differential. My point was this: nobody swaps from a Torsen or LSD to an open differential. Nobody. You see a sizeable product line from Wavetrac/ Quaife/ Torsen/ Carbonetic/ OSGiken/ ATS/ Yukon/ Eaton/ etc. for both front and rear applications because open differentials are stupid and don't perform. Quit conflating your preference for grocery getting with what's preferable for performance.

Your obsession with LSDs is a little over the top. You should have gotten the hint when you were ridiculed for suggesting Raptor owners swap out their locking rear diff for an LSD. But hey, it's your truck.

 

[bumwhine]

Right... oddly enough it was members on this forum that got that same manufacturer to make a front diff unit for Gen1 with high praise and interest. It makes sense to me now why you like the open rear diff so much, all around performance just isn't your thing.

 

[jaz13]

Right... oddly enough it was members on this forum that got that same manufacturer to make a front diff unit for Gen1 with high praise and interest. It makes sense to me now why you like the open rear diff so much, all around performance just isn't your thing.

How many Raptor owners signed up to be part of your LSD buy? Oh that right, zero. Apparently no one on these boards is into performance either.

 

[byz250f]

I wish ford offered a selectable front locker instead of the Torsion. I hate how both my 14 and 17 Raptor felt on the highway in the winter time in 4x4 towing the snowmobile trailer. Open front diff is better up front for non off roading and winter time driving.

 

[jaz13]

I wish ford offered a selectable front locker instead of the Torsion. I hate how both my 14 and 17 Raptor felt on the highway in the winter time in 4x4 towing the snowmobile trailer. Open front diff is better up front for non off roading and winter time driving.

I agree. Most people would opt for a locker up front over the Torsen if it was an option. But it probably stresses the existing front end components too much (when used improperly on dry surfaces) and Ford didn't want to upsize it, so they slapped the Torsen in there and called it good enough.

 

[dude1782]

I agree. Most people would opt for a locker up front over the Torsen if it was an option.

Maybe, but a front locker wouldn’t be too practical on a desert truck and ford consciously made the decision with that in mind.


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[Ditchplains1]

byz250f, jaz13,
While a selectable front locker sounds nice, once you LOCK the front end you will find all sorts of problems...unless you are going straight. The better the traction the bigger the problem will be. If you think the Torsen gives you binding, wait until you try to steer a LOCKED front end! In low traction situations your turning radius is 30% greater; in high traction situations the turning radius is even larger...remember both wheels are pulling evenly with a front locker...when you try to turn, the wheels pull equally...the inside wheel pulls the same as the outside wheel...causing the wheels to want to go straight.
I was driving a 6x6 military truck with a front locker in 2' deep mud. Un-locked it followed the ruts of the previous trucks. Locking the front diff...it drove straight out of the ruts in a straight line even with the steering wheel locked trying to follow the previous vehicles deep ruts. It resulted in backing up repeatedly; unlocking the front diff and it was a piece of cake to go where the other trucks had already plowed through.
The Torsen is amazing offroad!

Eddie

 

[tplee]

Im debating if I should order the "4.10 front axle with TORSEN[emoji768] Differential $500" which could be a double sword:

If I don't, resale value may decrease specially for the hard core raptor guys

If I do, $500 dollars later I could have reliability issue due the new technology, and remember that the truck has only 36K miles warranty

My dealer told me that not a single Raptor buyer have asked about that option, but the 802a package already includes it, which is a 10K option with taxes, what a rip-off!!!

What are your thoughts?

Having the ability to get power to both front wheels is comparable to what it's like going from 2wd to so-called "4wd" (w/ open diffs front and rear)... It's a dramatic increase in off-road capability. Coupled with a rear locker, it's tough to stop off road. And you'll never get it cheaper than $500 (installed).



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---------- Post added at 05:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:29 AM ----------

Maybe, but a front locker wouldn’t be too practical on a desert truck and ford consciously made the decision with that in mind.


Sent from my 2017 Raptor using Tapatalk

In my experience, posi's and selectables are most common up front... automatic lockers and full spools are far less so.

I did have a spool in an old Chevy k5 (w/ d60 and 35 spline outers up front [and a Detroit in the 14b out back]), but also had manual locking hubs... so could get out and unlock the inner wheel on super tight turns if necessary. Otherwise, would just use the throttle to get it around. Anyway, this thing was flat unstoppable of road.

With full-time or auto locking hubs I'd prefer a selectable locker, but would get the posi as a $500 OEM option in this case.

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[jaz13]

byz250f, jaz13,
While a selectable front locker sounds nice, once you LOCK the front end you will find all sorts of problems...unless you are going straight. The better the traction the bigger the problem will be. If you think the Torsen gives you binding, wait until you try to steer a LOCKED front end! In low traction situations your turning radius is 30% greater; in high traction situations the turning radius is even larger...remember both wheels are pulling evenly with a front locker...when you try to turn, the wheels pull equally...the inside wheel pulls the same as the outside wheel...causing the wheels to want to go straight.
I was driving a 6x6 military truck with a front locker in 2' deep mud. Un-locked it followed the ruts of the previous trucks. Locking the front diff...it drove straight out of the ruts in a straight line even with the steering wheel locked trying to follow the previous vehicles deep ruts. It resulted in backing up repeatedly; unlocking the front diff and it was a piece of cake to go where the other trucks had already plowed through.
The Torsen is amazing offroad!

Eddie

If I had a selectable front locker like the RAM and G-wagon, I'd only lock it when I am struggling for grip. There are very few situations that require drive from all 4 wheels. The rest of the time I'd be racing around the desert with the better handling of the open front diff.

The Torsen works, but it makes 4A feel like crap. What is the point of carrying around the extra weight and complexity of a wet multi-plate clutch if most of us only use 4A in conditions that are suitable for 4H?

4A is a cool idea, but IMO it would be more usable if it was paired with a front lockable open diff.