RPG Upper Control Arms and Tie Rods

[reaper1441]

what a weird collaboration of parts....

someone needs to step away from the checkbook until getting some guidance.

 

[zombiekiller]

Yes, that is the current plan to get the rear higher to fix the lean and add clearance in the rear wheel well. Not really sold on the idea but wasn’t given other choices by my local guy.

I was just talking to one of my buddies yesterday about heading up to Dallas to talk with the guys at TMX. I have a hauler build that I need to talk with them about. Old 53 Ford Heavy Duty flat bed I want to build into a show hauler. I know those guys do great work and after everything I have been dumping into this one I should have gotten them to do my full suspension work and let me guy here locally just do the body and interior work. Engine was done my my race crew mostly so wasn’t worried there. Just had my local guy install the parts once built.

I don't know that your shocks are outside of their spec. But i also dont know what brackets are used to adjust the shock mounts with your lift. If there are no brackets to adjust the mounting, you're very much out of the sweet spot of the shocks.


I would strongly suggest not doing that to the rear.

you're pushing too much HP, too much weight and too much tire for blocks and springs together like that.

The spring wrap, but more importantly the rotational force that you'll be putting on the pinion and driveshaft when you bog down in mud, then boot it WILL grenade the rear end.

The weak point on the rear axle is the case strength and flex ( affecting the spiders) under heavy load. This is why you cant engage the rear locker over 20mph. You're compounding the forces on the weakest point of the truck by doing what you're planning.

If you go that route with the rear, you'll be forced to use traction bars. There are way better ways to correct the rear.

Hell, you'd have less problems by just linking the thing and moving on with life.

I'd ask Jason his opinion. Call him. They're busy prepping everyone's trucks for TRR, but they'll slow down to talk to a customer.

Fixing sideways builds is well within their skill set.

IMO, your build has gotten sideways.

Again please dont misinterpret my commentary as inflammatory. It pains me to watch people throw good money after bad. Just trying to help.


Edit: Thinking more about it - I'd scrap the cradle. I'd go with the +3s in the rear. I'd do my new coilovers and shocks.

Instead of continuing to cobble together different lift parts, I'd then pull the fenders and bedsides, move to fiberwerx "deberti fenders ", then bump my tire size up to 39s.

The +10s may not be enough to get your tires out far enough, but I'd rather see you run hubcentric spacers than a cradle.

 

[Bhollier]

I don't know that your shocks are outside of their spec. But i also dont know what brackets are used to adjust the shock mounts with your lift. If there are no brackets to adjust the mounting, you're very much out of the sweet spot of the shocks.


I would strongly suggest not doing that to the rear.

you're pushing too much HP, too much weight and too much tire for blocks and springs together like that.

The spring wrap, but more importantly the rotational force that you'll be putting on the pinion and driveshaft when you bog down in mud, then boot it WILL grenade the rear end.

The weak point on the rear axle is the case strength and flex ( affecting the spiders) under heavy load. This is why you cant engage the rear locker over 20mph. You're compounding the forces on the weakest point of the truck by doing what you're planning.

If you go that route with the rear, you'll be forced to use traction bars. There are way better ways to correct the rear.

Hell, you'd have less problems by just linking the thing and moving on with life.

I'd ask Jason his opinion. Call him. They're busy prepping everyone's trucks for TRR, but they'll slow down to talk to a customer.

Fixing sideways builds is well within their skill set.

IMO, your build has gotten sideways.

Again please dont misinterpret my commentary as inflammatory. It pains me to watch people throw good money after bad. Just trying to help.


Edit: Thinking more about it - I'd scrap the cradle. I'd go with the +3s in the rear. I'd do my new coilovers and shocks.

Instead of continuing to cobble together different lift parts, I'd then pull the fenders and bedsides, move to fiberwerx "deberti fenders ", then bump my tire size up to 39s.

The +10s may not be enough to get your tires out far enough, but I'd rather see you run hubcentric spacers than a cradle.

Some of what you have listed here is what I want to talk to the guys about. The wheel travel and such is a concern.

As for my shocks we have custom mounts made to bring the shocks into the range they are designed for. I am thinking of scrapping that and going with coil overs to be done with it.

As for the rear and the HP I have, I am seriously considering going with a 4 link rear. I do notice that if I really get into it there is rear hop. Would settle that and give more control. Also as you mentioned I am very cautious with having the blocks and the new leaf spring set up together. This just came up on Friday and we really haven’t discussed it in detail. I just gave the go ahead to get the leaf kit built since it has about a 4 week turn around. I have other work being done at that time so it isn’t a rush.

I really don’t want to go with a bigger tire than the 37 since my tire options become more limited. I also don’t want to go with a very aggressive tire tread since my last F250 was like this and you couldn’t hear yourself think over the tire hum.


In the meantime I do need to bring the truck into Dallas and have them give it a look over to see what they think. I know it seems like a mash up of parts but to be honest it handles and drives very well for a lifted truck with this much HP.

Just a quick note, I don’t have the tune turned up all the way since I do use this as my daily driver. It has more than enough at 70% for what I need. When I do show it we turn it up full just for ***** and giggles. There is no way I would be riding around with it like that. I am sure it would rip the rear out in a short amount of time along with the transmission.

---------- Post added at 06:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:03 PM ----------

what a weird collaboration of parts....

someone needs to step away from the checkbook until getting some guidance.

My wife appreciated your comment. The problem is here in Houston all the guys we have discussed my suspension set up don’t have much experience in these types of trucks. They all do the normal lift for F250’s and such. But when it comes to building one that is lifted for real Offroad use, not many to work with. To be honest I am not the one to set up a truck from the wheel travel and such is why I have to rely on what my guys are telling me. With that said I do have the reassures to bring my truck to someone that knows better in Dallas is what my plans are now. I was giving my guys the chance to see what they can do but sounds like I need to call in the big boys.

My experience with trucks has previously always been diesel. This is my first gas truck. Also have plenty of cars but nothing made for dirt off-road. All track and road cars.

 

[zombiekiller]

Some of what you have listed here is what I want to talk to the guys about. The wheel travel and such is a concern.

As for my shocks we have custom mounts made to bring the shocks into the range they are designed for. I am thinking of scrapping that and going with coil overs to be done with it.

As for the rear and the HP I have, I am seriously considering going with a 4 link rear. I do notice that if I really get into it there is rear hop. Would settle that and give more control. Also as you mentioned I am very cautious with having the blocks and the new leaf spring set up together. This just came up on Friday and we really haven’t discussed it in detail. I just gave the go ahead to get the leaf kit built since it has about a 4 week turn around. I have other work being done at that time so it isn’t a rush.

I really don’t want to go with a bigger tire than the 37 since my tire options become more limited. I also don’t want to go with a very aggressive tire tread since my last F250 was like this and you couldn’t hear yourself think over the tire hum.


In the meantime I do need to bring the truck into Dallas and have them give it a look over to see what they think. I know it seems like a mash up of parts but to be honest it handles and drives very well for a lifted truck with this much HP.

Just a quick note, I don’t have the tune turned up all the way since I do use this as my daily driver. It has more than enough at 70% for what I need. When I do show it we turn it up full just for ***** and giggles. There is no way I would be riding around with it like that. I am sure it would rip the rear out in a short amount of time along with the transmission.

---------- Post added at 06:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:03 PM ----------



My wife appreciated your comment. The problem is here in Houston all the guys we have discussed my suspension set up don’t have much experience in these types of trucks. They all do the normal lift for F250’s and such. But when it comes to building one that is lifted for real Offroad use, not many to work with. To be honest I am not the one to set up a truck from the wheel travel and such is why I have to rely on what my guys are telling me. With that said I do have the reassures to bring my truck to someone that knows better in Dallas is what my plans are now. I was giving my guys the chance to see what they can do but sounds like I need to call in the big boys.

My experience with trucks has previously always been diesel. This is my first gas truck. Also, have plenty of cars but nothing made for dirt off-road. All track and road cars.

you should be able to get a pretty quiet 39 or 40. If you take a look, nitto makes trail grapplers in a 40. Those tires are pretty quiet for how well they perform off-road. You're gonna have to choose good int he mud vs quiet on the highway.

The good news is, with the advent of 39s and 40s being the new "big boy" tire size, you have more options that there have ever been.

As for the rear suspension setup, you'll hear many many many people state that with deavers and a bypass rack, plus some limit straps, it is REALLY hard to find the limit of the truck before you get scared.

If you're going to link the truck, it is a good idea to consider an internal cage. ( running a caged vehicle, as you know, on the street has its own challenges, namely not wanting to split your head on chromoly tubing should you be in an accident.

My daily routine doesn't warrant strapping a helmet on to protect me from my own roll cage, thus no caged road vehicles beyond my hotrod.

I absolutely get the frustration with the mud and rock crawling guys/shops when trying to use someone local to help with the raptor. I drive to Dallas to see TMX when I need things done beyond my personal abilities. TMX can touch my truck. I can touch my truck. I haven't met anyone else between New Orleans and Dallas that I would let touch my truck.

I grew up on hot rods, then caught the jeep bug, then went to drag racing, then road racing and now i'm fascinated by desert/high speed off-road racing.

I would liken the rear suspension setup decision to the difference between using a Panhard vs a watts link. a watts link will give you all the right axle control without ******** with axle location, but you have to strengthen the center section and axle for it to be tough too.

I think you'll find that the additional height from your cradle to facilitate deeper fording capabilities is a wash when compared to going up 3" in the front from coilovers. I also think that once you go with the +3 deaver springs and gauge the difference in body height, it will be negligible.

I think you'll be fine with the +10s and 37s once you get the suspension hashed out.

If you're feeling froggy, c'mon out to TRR18. I'm sure quite a few people, including myself, would be happy to give you a ride around the course so you can see what suspension setups feel like before you spend big coin on them.

I won't have my bypass rack or 3.5s in the rear, and I'm anxiously awaiting RPG's release of their new mid travel kit, but you'll get a sense for how deavers, fox coilovers and 37s behave.

I also know that a couple guys running the RPG bolt kits and 40s will be there. Would be a great chance for you to see what I'm rattling on about.

 

[Bhollier]

you should be able to get a pretty quiet 39 or 40. If you take a look, nitto makes trail grapplers in a 40. Those tires are pretty quiet for how well they perform off-road. You're gonna have to choose good int he mud vs quiet on the highway.

The good news is, with the advent of 39s and 40s being the new "big boy" tire size, you have more options that there have ever been.

As for the rear suspension setup, you'll hear many many many people state that with deavers and a bypass rack, plus some limit straps, it is REALLY hard to find the limit of the truck before you get scared.

If you're going to link the truck, it is a good idea to consider an internal cage. ( running a caged vehicle, as you know, on the street has its own challenges, namely not wanting to split your head on chromoly tubing should you be in an accident.

My daily routine doesn't warrant strapping a helmet on to protect me from my own roll cage, thus no caged road vehicles beyond my hotrod.

I absolutely get the frustration with the mud and rock crawling guys/shops when trying to use someone local to help with the raptor. I drive to Dallas to see TMX when I need things done beyond my personal abilities. TMX can touch my truck. I can touch my truck. I haven't met anyone else between New Orleans and Dallas that I would let touch my truck.

I grew up on hot rods, then caught the jeep bug, then went to drag racing, then road racing and now i'm fascinated by desert/high speed off-road racing.

I would liken the rear suspension setup decision to the difference between using a Panhard vs a watts link. a watts link will give you all the right axle control without ******** with axle location, but you have to strengthen the center section and axle for it to be tough too.

I think you'll find that the additional height from your cradle to facilitate deeper fording capabilities is a wash when compared to going up 3" in the front from coilovers. I also think that once you go with the +3 deaver springs and gauge the difference in body height, it will be negligible.

I think you'll be fine with the +10s and 37s once you get the suspension hashed out.

If you're feeling froggy, c'mon out to TRR18. I'm sure quite a few people, including myself, would be happy to give you a ride around the course so you can see what suspension setups feel like before you spend big coin on them.

I won't have my bypass rack or 3.5s in the rear, and I'm anxiously awaiting RPG's release of their new mid travel kit, but you'll get a sense for how deavers, fox coilovers and 37s behave.

I also know that a couple guys running the RPG bolt kits and 40s will be there. Would be a great chance for you to see what I'm rattling on about.

Once I get everything lined out like I want for the suspension I may look into running a different tire. Worth looking into.

Still not sure how to set up or which set up to use on a 4 link. Something I have been considering once we completed the engine. Also want to see how the rear responds with the new leafs. Might have less hop but still worry about the axle wrap. Still would leave me with the last weak link, transmission. Wish they had a dual clutch 7 or 8 speed instead of the 10 speed. That is another topic though.

I won't be able to make it over to TRR. I will be in Italy for a race at the end of the month. I would like to make it out to one eventually. Not to race but to observe. I don't have experience with offroad rally racing, and don't trust myself on a course like that without practice. I grew up on dirt roads and have been running around on those all my life but don't think it would be the same as that terrain.

 

[TXRaptor]

Do you have any pictures of your truck? I am interested to see how it looks with a 4"+ lift, as I have never seen one.

I am planning to stay within the recommended guidelines of a 2.25" front and stock back, except I might be adding SuperSprings to handle loading sag.

 

[Bhollier]

Here are a few pics for you as it is now. And no that is not me in the drivers seat. They took these before they gave me the truck back.

 

[Bhollier]

One more after it was ceramic coated.

 

[Bhollier]

Stock Raptor vs Mine so you get a comparison.

 

[NM156]

I know I'll get flamed but I kinda like it. It's not a full bro-dozer and the gold is a little much but still not bad.