Raptor Sales Alltime Low

[Craigy]

Hey brother, define "afford"? Not trying to be difficult here, honest question.

A $50K+ vehicle is nothing to sneeze at unless you're a professional athlete or a big whig in the private sector. My occupation provides me and my family a very adequate and comfortable living in Texas. Texas offers one of the most favorable costs of living in the US (even the world). This is further enhanced by the industry and of course the higher pay (even for blue collar) thus providing more buying power for he "average joe".

Even then, a $50K+ vehicle is still quite a bit to shell out. I bought a 2013 SCREW pre-owned because I could not afford it when it first came out. In my opinion, to afford something by definition entails being able to outright pay for it. If one has to make payments over 60, 72, 84 months on a vehicle, they actually can't afford it. They are just willingly going into debt for a depreciating asset. Don't get me wrong, I'm still in debt currently with a house note (working on paying that off early hopefully) and we've financed cars and other big purchases in the past....but never more. Now, if we don't have 100% of the funds to buy it, we don't buy it.

It's still a bit astonishing to me how many "younger" folks on here are able to afford a Raptor and/or other flagship vehicles listed in their avatar or sig. How the heck does someone "afford" a Ford GT or a Raptor in their early 20s? or even Late 20s? Yes there are a few exceptions that have pointed out to me in another thread that they started their own business very early on...good for them.

But unless we are talking about professional athletes, successful venture capitalists (a lot of that is luck...right place at the right time), day trading (maybe? doubt it), tycoons of some sort (I doubt that at such a young age)....I would just assume most of the younger folks are financing a Raptor with mega substantial payments or parents bought it for them.

An affordable vehicle is a Honda Civic and MAYBE an Accord. Accords are very nice cars but they aren't exactly cheap either. Just saying.

David

---------- Post added at 08:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:58 AM ----------



That still is the case today. $45K vehicle is still "high end" from what I gather for the working class...blue or white collar.

This generation and mine (Gen X) have this illusion of the American Dream that is so easily attainable. We just go out and finance everything to enjoy "the finer things" in life. While it's understandable from a "you only live once" perspective, it's just not smart. It's important to pay yourself first, but it's also prudent to save and invest and GIVE. It says in the Bible, that God will bless those many times over the more generously you give. There's absolute truth in that.

David

---------- Post added at 08:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:02 AM ----------



This is more so the conventional demographic for a vehicle of this price level. If people make a ridiculous income relative to the average Joe, they can truly afford these flagship vehicles....CASH.

David

---------- Post added at 08:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:04 AM ----------




And another thing, these plumbers and electricians make 6 figures? Because that's really the only scenario I could fathom them being able to truly afford a brand new Raptor or any flagship vehicle for that matter.

"Good income" is also very subjective. To some, "good" is $45K and others "$250K".

David:

I agree with you on all the Dave Ramsey-isms, but that's not the point here. And since you asked: afford: to be capable of yielding or providing; to be able to meet the expense of; have or be able to spare the price of.

Pretty long post but to give you an idea of where I'm coming from, and at the expense of sounding like a completely broken record, I'm from southern Louisiana and almost any guy who can rub two sticks together has a nice pickup truck and a boat. E.g. an FX4 Lariat or Platinum F150, tons of superdutys, you name it. The Raptor used to be a little more money than a Lariat and little less than a Platty, prob about the same when you factor discounts. I.e., something not cheap but readily attainable if you responsibly save, or something that you could finance without severe heartache.

Jumping to the end, yeah, you're absolutely right, these days you have to make six figures to easily afford a Raptor. That's the entire crux of what I've been bitching and moaning about, how Ford has moved the Raptor substantially upmarket. Used to be mid-high $40s *loaded* and now it's $65k+++ to over $70k. They literally added a whole nother car to the pricetag.

I went and looked this up just now: used to be you could buy the "luxury package" for an extra $2,100 and get a nicely equipped Raptor. Now if you want any of those same modern features, you have to select the 802a package for $9,345. That's just cheesy marketing.

Regardless of whether any tom, **** or harry can "afford" a Raptor, would you not agree that a $70,000 truck is a lot more difficult to afford than a $45,000 one?

 

[RaptorEnthusiast]

I agree with you on all the Dave Ramsey-isms, but that's not the point here. And since you asked: afford: to be capable of yielding or providing; to be able to meet the expense of; have or be able to spare the price of.

Pretty long post but to give you an idea of where I'm coming from, and at the expense of sounding like a completely broken record, I'm from southern Louisiana and almost any guy who can rub two sticks together has a nice pickup truck and a boat. E.g. an FX4 Lariat or Platinum F150, tons of superdutys, you name it. The Raptor used to be a little more money than a Lariat and little less than a Platty, prob about the same when you factor discounts. I.e., something that's readily attainable if you responsibly save, or something that you could finance without severe heartache.

Jumping to the end, yeah, you're absolutely right, these days you have to make six figures to easily afford a Raptor. That's the entire crux of what I've been bitching and moaning about, how Ford has moved the Raptor substantially upmarket. Used to be mid-high $40s *loaded* and now it's $65k+++ to over $70k. They literally added a whole nother car to the pricetag.

I went and looked this up just now: used to be you could buy the "luxury package" for an extra $2,100 and get a nicely equipped Raptor. Now if you want any of those same modern features, you have to select the 802a package for $9,345. That's just cheesy marketing.

Regardless of whether any tom, **** or harry can "afford" a Raptor, would you not agree that a $70,000 truck is a lot more difficult to afford than a $45,000 one?

Hey first off, Kudos to the Dave Ramsey reference We just took his FPU course and I must say we are thankful and view our family lifestyle completely differently now (in a good way). You are absolutely right about me alluding to the Dave Ramsey-ism . It's refreshing that someone else on this forum no less can understand that concept and teachings.

Now, yes, a $70K truck of course is less affordable than a $45K one. That's just simple numbers. I don't disagree with you about the exorbitant costs associated with the gen 2 package options compared with the gen 1.

In fact, my initial premise was to the fact that even at $50K, a vehicle is considered expensive. The Gen 2s are certainly becoming even less obtainable because of their steep price increase.

So you mentioned any guy in your state that could rub 2 sticks together can afford a 60K - 70K truck. That's impressive. Seriously, you're telling me that those electricians and plumbers and other blue collar occupations enable them to afford a Raptor or comparably priced trim trucks? They must be doing really well then because that is not and has not been the norm here in Texas.

What's equally impressive is how they can shoulder those massive monthly payments on a truck and still responsibly take care of their families (I'm assuming they have families).

And by the way, it might be a Dave Ramsey teaching on FPU, but it's hardly a new idea. Bible talks about getting out of debt and not being a slave. Financial Freedom is definitely the key to a wealthy and fruitful way of life. Why do people finance things? Because they want it now, simple as that. I know this because I know myself I will never finance anything ever again.

I do however see landscaping or lawn maintenance guys driving Super Duty or even F-350s....the newer ones. I wonder how is that possible? I just never thought what they did for a living would enable them to afford a $70-$80K truck (F-350s cost around that right?).

David

 

[mwm5094]

Man, lots of energy wasted in here. A dealership can do what it wants, as they should, as should every business owner. If they want to price themselves out of the market, let them do so. You don't want to pay their price..... find the price you are willing to pay elsewhere. Finding a price that you, the buyer, is comfortable with is your job, not the dealers. When I bought mine there were 3 dealers within 2 hours of me that had what I wanted. Two wouldn't deal, one would. So I went to the dealer, told them what I was willing to pay and to either accept or decline my offer. They declined so I walked out to my truck and as I was pulling away the salesman stopped me in the lot and told me they would do my deal. Car buying is very easy if you want it to be.

Now, yes, stealerships do try and **** you on the little shit..... Extended warranty, paint protection plans, resist all, finance, blah blah blah. You can say no to every one of those minus finance if you don't have the cash. The dealers can waive all the other processing and DMV fees if they want to..... most aren't going to let a sale walk over it. You can also negotiate the loan % but say you leave there and you don't like the loan they provided, refinance with another lender, they all want your business. Especially Wells Fargo after their little hiccup.

When the GT350 came out, my local dealer had 2.... White with blue stripes aka Ford Racing colors. Sold one for double sticker, listed the other one for double sticker. If they can get it, why not? I wouldn't pay it but someone that has to have it will and if it sits for 3 months, they don't care. The profit they stand to make on it would make up for tons of other car sales.

Last little note. Mostly all of us modify our trucks. Why doesn't everyone with this "price to high" mindset bitch at Fox, Rigid, Method, Toyo, Nitto, etc. for what their MAP is vs. their cost to produce or their profit per unit? You pay it or you don't. Plain and simple. Before someone comments about the cost difference, yes I know we are talking about thousands vs tens of thousands but the business model is still the same. Build a badass product that people want, charge whatever the market allows you to fetch for the product.

 

[Craigy]

Hey first off, Kudos to the Dave Ramsey reference We just took his FPU course and I must say we are thankful and view our family lifestyle completely differently now (in a good way). You are absolutely right about me alluding to the Dave Ramsey-ism . It's refreshing that someone else on this forum no less can understand that concept and teachings.

Now, yes, a $70K truck of course is less affordable than a $45K one. That's just simple numbers. I don't disagree with you about the exorbitant costs associated with the gen 2 package options compared with the gen 1.

In fact, my initial premise was to the fact that even at $50K, a vehicle is considered expensive. The Gen 2s are certainly becoming even less obtainable because of their steep price increase.

So you mentioned any guy in your state that could rub 2 sticks together can afford a 60K - 70K truck. That's impressive. Seriously, you're telling me that those electricians and plumbers and other blue collar occupations enable them to afford a Raptor or comparably priced trim trucks? They must be doing really well then because that is not and has not been the norm here in Texas.

What's equally impressive is how they can shoulder those massive monthly payments on a truck and still responsibly take care of their families (I'm assuming they have families).

And by the way, it might be a Dave Ramsey teaching on FPU, but it's hardly a new idea. Bible talks about getting out of debt and not being a slave. Financial Freedom is definitely the key to a wealthy and fruitful way of life. Why do people finance things? Because they want it now, simple as that. I know this because I know myself I will never finance anything ever again.

I do however see landscaping or lawn maintenance guys driving Super Duty or even F-350s....the newer ones. I wonder how is that possible? I just never thought what they did for a living would enable them to afford a $70-$80K truck (F-350s cost around that right?).

David

Love Dave Ramsey. I listen and watch on youtube all the time. Wish I didn't since I'd probably be driving a new Raptor today

I haven't seen everyone's W2, but most local licensed electricians, plumbers, plant workers, offshore guys, you name it, make a good living, as in 50-60k on up to 80-90k+. Way more if their name is on the letterhead. Not the electrician helper or the guy who digs trenches for the plumber though. With overtime, UPS drivers make 90k. And yeah I think you underestimate how much some of those lawn and landscape guys can pull in (I checked their prices and let's just say I am thrilled to cut my own lawn).

Could they afford the last gen Raptor? Yeah I think a lot of them could easily. But now that it's crept up into the 60s and 70s, it's a big stretch or simply out of the budget.

So yeah moral of the story many blue collar guys who went out and earned and were successful could buy the last-gen Raptor without being irresponsible. Now in 2017 it's decidedly moved to be an upper-upper-middle class truck.

 

[RaptorEnthusiast]

Love Dave Ramsey. I listen and watch on youtube all the time. Wish I didn't since I'd probably be driving a new Raptor today

I haven't seen everyone's W2, but most local licensed electricians, plumbers, plant workers, offshore guys, you name it, make a good living, as in 50-60k on up to 80-90k+. Way more if their name is on the letterhead. Not the electrician helper or the guy who digs trenches for the plumber though. With overtime, UPS drivers make 90k. And yeah I think you underestimate how much some of those lawn and landscape guys can pull in (I checked their prices and let's just say I am thrilled to cut my own lawn).

Could they afford the last gen Raptor? Yeah I think a lot of them could easily. But now that it's crept up into the 60s and 70s, it's a big stretch or simply out of the budget.

So yeah moral of the story many blue collar guys who went out and earned and were successful could buy the last-gen Raptor without being irresponsible. Now in 2017 it's decidedly moved to be an upper-upper-middle class truck.

Ok, now you've clarified on the demographics a bit. The offshore/plant guys.....I'm not surprised at the amount of income they bring in. Just the nature of the occupation involving more risk and hazard. I was referring to the "helper" guys of the electricians and plumbers etc lol. I was thinking those helper guys make that kind of money to afford flagship vehicles? WOW! lol

I'm also not surprised by the UPS driver incomes. Most carrier/courier drivers and even Transport truckers make a very good living.

David

 

[zizouandyuki]

Throwing my two cents in here as a newcomer. I'm inclined to agree that it's absurd to have to select a $9k package to get features like push-start that are standard in almost every new car on the market.

I'm moving into this truck from an M3, and I'm baffled by the fact that packages on a BMW M series are half of what Ford is requiring for their "luxury" package.

I also think the market is settling down a bit. I put a deposit down yesterday @ MSRP. Perhaps I struck gold, but I have a feeling this is quickly becoming the norm due to the exorbitant cost of entry and add-ons.

Nevertheless, I'm incredibly excited about my purchase. Just hope values on this generation fair as well as the previous one.