Raptor First Drive - Very Bad

[seanpholman]

I was also the person who wrote the story about the Raptor vs. Power Wagon and on that 500-mile loop, with the vehicles back to back over the same terrain, there were things about the Power Wagon that we preferred over the Raptor, namely suspension harshness at low speeds and transmission calibration. People underestimate just how good of a truck the Power Wagon is.

While both trucks serve a different audience and mission, their similar price points and the fact that each one is the vision of its maker of what a factory performance truck should be, make it fun to compare them. But just because we didn't chose the Raptor in an incredibly close contest doesn't mean we are hacks or that you have to agree. Drop us an e-mail or visit or Facebook page and let us know what you think, we love the dialogue with our readers.

Just know that any of our tests come from a position of knowledge and we weigh the pros and cons to deliver a result that we feel best matches what our readers are looking for. We also try to be as fair as possible and give you enough information to come to your own conclusion.

For 2011 with SelectShift, some of our complaints have been addressed with the Raptor. We also love the DIC. I'll be getting our 2011 Raptor long-termer later this month and am looking forward to spending time in it this year.

--Sean

 

[BIRDMAN]

I was also the person who wrote the story about the Raptor vs. Power Wagon and on that 500-mile loop, with the vehicles back to back over the same terrain, there were things about the Power Wagon that we preferred over the Raptor, namely suspension harshness at low speeds and transmission calibration. People underestimate just how good of a truck the Power Wagon is.

While both trucks serve a different audience and mission, their similar price points and the fact that each one is the vision of its maker of what a factory performance truck should be, make it fun to compare them. But just because we didn't chose the Raptor in an incredibly close contest doesn't mean we are hacks or that you have to agree. Drop us an e-mail or visit or Facebook page and let us know what you think, we love the dialogue with our readers.

Just know that any of our tests come from a position of knowledge and we weigh the pros and cons to deliver a result that we feel best matches what our readers are looking for. We also try to be as fair as possible and give you enough information to come to your own conclusion.

For 2011 with SelectShift, some of our complaints have been addressed with the Raptor. We also love the DIC. I'll be getting our 2011 Raptor long-termer later this month and am looking forward to spending time in it this year.

--Sean

I think the complaints were based around comparing a slow speed MULE like the Power Wagon...which I agree is a sweet truck...and a high speed purpose built desert truck capable of jumping 5' repeatedly without breaking anything. Each truck has it's strong points...just seemed as though the battery of tests you did were more in the PW's favor. Ford didn't release the Raptor to compete with the PW, it's a one of a kind truck in its market...so why compare it to a proven log hauler like the PW?

 

[seanpholman]

I don't know how you can say hundreds of miles of desert roads and washes favors the Power Wagon, but as I said above, even though they may not compete directly in the marketplace that doesn't mean people aren't curious about how the two compare. The test was for fun while we had both trucks. We were surprised by the outcome, but we stand by it. Hopefully I provided enough info in the story for you to decide what is important to you and decide your own winner (which you obviously have with your pocketbook).

--Sean

 

[BIRDMAN]

I don't know how you can say hundreds of miles of desert roads and washes favors the Power Wagon, but as I said above, even though they may not compete directly in the marketplace that doesn't mean people aren't curious about how the two compare. The test was for fun while we had both trucks. We were surprised by the outcome, but we stand by it. Hopefully I provided enough info in the story for you to decide what is important to you and decide your own winner (which you obviously have with your pocketbook).

--Sean

Yes but you based the ride on the PW being better at slow-moderate speed. The Raptor was better at high speed...go figure. The Raptor wasn't built to jog down a logging road it was made to wail on jumps @ 60MPH. again...why compare the two? EXCELLENT ARTICLE and unbiased review. Poor comparison.

 

[JP7]

I was also the person who wrote the story about the Raptor vs. Power Wagon and on that 500-mile loop, with the vehicles back to back over the same terrain, there were things about the Power Wagon that we preferred over the Raptor, namely suspension harshness at low speeds and transmission calibration. People underestimate just how good of a truck the Power Wagon is.

While both trucks serve a different audience and mission, their similar price points and the fact that each one is the vision of its maker of what a factory performance truck should be, make it fun to compare them. But just because we didn't chose the Raptor in an incredibly close contest doesn't mean we are hacks or that you have to agree. Drop us an e-mail or visit or Facebook page and let us know what you think, we love the dialogue with our readers.

Just know that any of our tests come from a position of knowledge and we weigh the pros and cons to deliver a result that we feel best matches what our readers are looking for. We also try to be as fair as possible and give you enough information to come to your own conclusion.

For 2011 with SelectShift, some of our complaints have been addressed with the Raptor. We also love the DIC. I'll be getting our 2011 Raptor long-termer later this month and am looking forward to spending time in it this year.

--Sean

Agreed - as a writer (know the feeling) you need to project as unbiased an opinion as possible, while still giving a comparative review of the subjects. Not an easy task sometimes when both vehicles perform well. The fact that the Dodge was favored by you and your team - admittedly caused some waves here {i can't find the damn thread to post} but you did your job.

Naturally, us "opinionated" Raptor owners will disagree with a few of the points made in that write up - but hell - thats what forums are for!

It's all good - The 3 big guys make some good vehicles - us here think the Raptor is one of the best ideas Ford has come up with (since the early 70's) and we share our likes/dislikes/experiences here.

Chev's come out with a new weapon in this field - and undoubtedly it will be pitched against the Raptor -even though its a 3/4 ton. Intentionally, as with the Dodge solid axle front end - there are enough differences to cry wolf - it will be interesting to pitch all three in a comparative test.

I propose the testing grounds encompass all aspects of offroading - sure the desert/baja mode is a great test of agility - but there are other types of offroad usage that 4 wheel drive vehicles should be evaluated by including hills, water, mud, rocks, and trails. If we want to spit out Chev off the bat - add in "limited parking - less than a 3 point turn to find a parking spot at the local mall"

Sean, your input will be valuable here - not taken to task as "thou shalt complete these tasks" - more in a friendly way as to what some of us will be looking for in future reviews, and how Raptor owners can assist.

We aren't looking to be the undisputed best truck out there - but several of us think that Ford made a good decision in the construction of this vehicle. I for one, would pit mine against the competition, in a well rounded 4x4 competition.

Cheers,
JP

 

[seanpholman]

Guys,

I get it and I love the Raptor, but I also have the opportunity to drive and evaluate countless vehicles over the year (I have been doing this for over 10 now). I used to consider myself a "Ford Guy", but I can't let that bias my opinion. The fact that I am in and out of so many vehicles gives me a unique perspective that someone driving the same truck every day doesn't get. There are things you miss when you are in one vehicle day in and day out, and things that you get used to. Drive something back to back on the exact same terrain and things you never noticed before become apparent. And most trucks when taken on their own may seem like the most awesome machine ever created, until you directly compare it to something.

Having been around forums as long as I have (I used to be the Admin at www.offroadrangers.com), I know how hard it is to win over someone that just spent their hard earned money and convince them another product may be as good or better.

And as to the "poor comparison", we took both trucks on a desert loop that represented what a typical owner may take their truck on. And while the Raptor is meant to excel at high speeds, there are portions of many trails where those speeds cannot be achieved safely due to terrain, obstacles, tightness, etc. In those conditions the Raptor driver will be forced to slow down and experience a ride that is harsher than the same driver in the Power Wagon. That is why that comparison is relevant. You just can't go 60+mph everywhere. And while you as enthusiasts may want to bomb washes in your $50,000 truck, there will be plenty more owners who will never be able to drive to the capability of the vehicle and might be disappointed that the low to moderate speed ride could be considered harsh.

As for the GMC All-Terrain (I know the designer responsible for it), it is a very neat concept. It sort of splits the difference between a 1/2-ton Raptor and a 3/4-ton Power Wagon with its HD chassis and IFS suspension. It also offers the diesel that most Power Wagon detractors clamor for. The problem is that if this truck ever reaches production, it will be very close to approaching $70,000 ($50K HD Denali, $8K Duramax, $5-8K chassis and body improvements). Is that too much for a personal use truck? I guess the market can decide that.

--Sean

 

[BIRDMAN]

Guys,

I get it and I love the Raptor, but I also have the opportunity to drive and evaluate countless vehicles over the year (I have been doing this for over 10 now). I used to consider myself a "Ford Guy", but I can't let that bias my opinion. The fact that I am in and out of so many vehicles gives me a unique perspective that someone driving the same truck every day doesn't get. There are things you miss when you are in one vehicle day in and day out, and things that you get used to. Drive something back to back on the exact same terrain and things you never noticed before become apparent. And most trucks when taken on their own may seem like the most awesome machine ever created, until you directly compare it to something.

Having been around forums as long as I have (I used to be the Admin at www.offroadrangers.com), I know how hard it is to win over someone that just spent their hard earned money and convince them another product may be as good or better.

And as to the "poor comparison", we took both trucks on a desert loop that represented what a typical owner may take their truck on. And while the Raptor is meant to excel at high speeds, there are portions of many trails where those speeds cannot be achieved safely due to terrain, obstacles, tightness, etc. In those conditions the Raptor driver will be forced to slow down and experience a ride that is harsher than the same driver in the Power Wagon. That is why that comparison is relevant. You just can't go 60+mph everywhere. And while you as enthusiasts may want to bomb washes in your $50,000 truck, there will be plenty more owners who will never be able to drive to the capability of the vehicle and might be disappointed that the low to moderate speed ride could be considered harsh.

As for the GMC All-Terrain (I know the designer responsible for it), it is a very neat concept. It sort of splits the difference between a 1/2-ton Raptor and a 3/4-ton Power Wagon with its HD chassis and IFS suspension. It also offers the diesel that most Power Wagon detractors clamor for. The problem is that if this truck ever reaches production, it will be very close to approaching $70,000 ($50K HD Denali, $8K Duramax, $5-8K chassis and body improvements). Is that too much for a personal use truck? I guess the market can decide that.

--Sean

Some of us made our minds up before we spent the money, not after. The PW is a great truck but to me it rides like shit on the road and scores a big fat 0 in the looks dept. To each his own I suppose.

 

[whtrapta]

No baja 1000? This truck makes me feel like I could take on the WORLD!!!

 

[iceman302]

The phrase "barking up the wrong tree" comes to mind here.

Sean, you're highly unlikely (no matter how you paint the objectiveness of your test) to convince anyone here that Dodge built the better truck. Dodge has a reputation alright... most of it has been built on a flatbed. According to AAA, Chrysler products are the most frequently towed vehicles in America. Tell that to the Dodge owner when his truck breaks down in the middle of nowhere.

 

[pirate air]

Damn! Late to my own party!!! The school thing just takes up too much of my time anymore....

I still stand behind my words. Honestly, arguing anything any further would be a huge waste of time. But I will say this,

Many questions came/come to mind..... This is the number one thing that bothers me: An automotive company has the balls to produce an off road truck like none other ever built in uncertain economic times. Said truck meets and exceeds all hype while continuing to push the excitment bar, for at the time, 5,000+ owners. One would think this alone would qualify it for "off-road" truck of the year. I mean, did anyone else bring anything completely new and bar setting to the off-road table for 2010?? Instead the Raptor gets dinged for opinionated BS reasons; like the interior not having grandfather truck like features

Yes I'm biased towards Ford, but at least I can give credit were its due. All things remaining the same, I would have no problem giving it truck of the year if it were the "KIA Raptor".

As for reading the magazine more to somehow convince me its more then 4 dollars worth of BS opinions, I have better things to do in life, like drive my 50k truck across a sand wash at 70 mph. America wasn't built on vaginas.