GEN 2 My prediction on the 5.2

[Badgertits]

I own a Terminator Mustang. No GM product has ever shown me it's taillights. In fact, the only thing that has ever gotten out on me at the drag strip (that wasn't a big block 9 sec drag car) was a Miata with a S/C 5.0L engine. That ****** out a bus length on me.

That particular Ford V8 had the upper hand for at least five years. If you are honest, you will recall that the 03/04 Cobra Mustangs, typically with a 2.93 upper pulley swap, regularly smacked the shit out of any GM product on the market starting in early 2002, including every variant of Corvette. Twin screw blower swapped Cobras flat out crushed them. 3 years later, the $80K C6 Z06 was still the only thing GM made that could keep up with it. 6 years later, the ZR1 finally dethroned it by finally supercharging their V8 the same way, albeit with a $100K price tag.

Pretty much every manufacturer has now gone with the PD blower on top of a V8 for anything that needs to make big power. ZR1, Hellcats, GT500s... Who started that? Ford. They started it with the 1999 F150 Lightning, which also smoked GM products for years on end. GM still hasn't made a full sized truck that can keep up with a 20 year old Lightning.

"But, but- it's supercharged. If mine was superchraged, then..." Yeah, but it's not, is it?

You clearly have selective memory.

You - have selective reading skills then lol - you saw the (N/A) caveat dropped in that statement right? ;-) The termi cobra motor was/is my favorite iteration of the Ford modular V8 - was same in the Lightning right? That's why I said NATURALLY ASPIRATED - that blown 4.6 w/ the forged guts & stout bottom end aint the same as their standard offerings.....but, stock for stock it was never beating a C5 Z06 @ the strip or the track. Most guys were lucky to get low 13's high 12's stock w/ the termi's, adding DR's getting them into low 12's. I shouldn't need to mention, but ALOT of gearheads are aware of the bone stock C5Z times going sub 12 (stock tires & shifter even) & bone stock C6Z's dipping into the lowest 11's/highest 10's. Confirmed. On vid. Slips. Check out Ranger - helluva driver! Now sure once you slap tires, up the boost/tune those termi cobras its a whole different ball game - but lugging around nearly 1000 lbs over a C5Z they need the extra work to negate the weight factor. So if you don't wanna go down the road of "well if the C5Z had a blower forget about it" convo - the fact is back then same as now, no termi cobras were beating C5Z's (let alone C6Z's jesus christ man) down the strip or esp. around a race track - didn't take the C6 ZR1 to "beat" that version of the mustang nor is it even a fair comparison. I have a H/C/I + shifter/built diff/suspension mods on my own C5Z - but even when it was closer to stock just intake/tune I was keeping up w/ a tuned/pulleyed 04 cobra my buddy had, car had the mystichrome paint - sick ride no doubt, but 3900 lbs vs 3080 lbs - woof! Tough to overcome that - from the get go the C5Z is moving 25% less mass - takes +120hp for the Cobra to even that up, which means modifying....& we all know all bets are off once you go down that road. Pulley swap on cobra? I'll raise you a ram air CAI, LT headers, & tune on the C5Z etc etc

For the record, mine WILL be supercharged too in the spring. And I don't hate all Ford stuff - hence why I'm in a Raptor!!! I just don't think they've made a V8 I give a shit about since the exact terminator blown 4.6 you correctly mention - although I WAS very hopeful w/ the voodoo 5.2, it was even a car I considered "swapping" out for my C5Z before putting any more $$$/mods into it (also cross shopped w/ CPO BMW M2, Civic SI, Lexus RCf, & camaro 1LE) - I LOVED the sound of it, loved the high strung high revving feel of it, great balance & handling etc. - BUT as I did my research I came to the conclusion just wasn't as sturdy/reliable as the GM V8's I was already used to & didn't want to have to start learning how to tinker w/ a new engine design since I like doing some of my own mods when possible. You're not going to tell me that engine is as reliable as an LT1 right?

And for the record....sadly actually b/c I loved the design/idea of it.....GM HAS made trucks faster than a stock Lightning, & they aren't "sport" models - I'm talking crew cab std bed loaded up SLTs/Denalis w/ the 6.2, guys are running 13.6-13.8 STOCK - not even defeating the 98 mph governor so that's the "trap" & they probably have a little more in em. Add intake/headers/tune & those 3 ton land yachts do high 12's - check it out for yourself on youtube. I think the fastest version of any truck out there would be if you could get the following combo from either ford or GM:

Ford - drop the HO 3.5 in regular or SCAB w/ tow package/deepest gears available in lowest trim possible
GM - dropping the 6.2 in their base regular or extended cab w/ tow package AND E85 capable (the 5.3 sucking E85 comes up to 90% the power of the 6.2 on factory ecu mapping btw)

Lastly - my buddy w/ the termi cobra liked it so much after selling he decided to make his own "Maraudernator" - put a cobra blower on it, headers, 4.10s, intake etc. w/ some other stuff, sending it down to GA for a stickshift conversion kit. Cool.

 

[BobbyVA]

Probably old news here as the article posted 6 months ago but has anyone seen it?


http://fordauthority.com/2019/06/ford-f-150-raptor-will-get-a-v8-exclusive/amp/



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[EricM]

You - have selective reading skills then lol - you saw the (N/A) caveat dropped in that statement right? ;-) The termi cobra motor was/is my favorite iteration of the Ford modular V8 - was same in the Lightning right? That's why I said NATURALLY ASPIRATED - that blown 4.6 w/ the forged guts & stout bottom end aint the same as their standard offerings.....

WTF difference does it make if it had a blower or not? The 4.6L S/C Cobra engine was all off the shelf parts bin stuff with the Eaton grafted on top, nice rods, and decent pistons. The same iron engine block went into the Cobra as the GT Mustangs. The same 4V heads that the Aviator and Marauder got were used. It had the same Kellogg crank as every Cobra from 1996+ had. The major upgrades over the other non-S/C engines were the basically the Manley rods and Mahle pistons to keep it together in their dyno tests.

The Lightning was a S/C 2V 5.4L. The Cobra was a S/C 4V 4.6L. The Lightning had a cast steel crank, the Cobra had a forged steel crank. But again, the Lighting was essentially a stock F150 engine with a blower bolted onto it. There was nothing really special about it other than the blower. The base engine were very strong and had no major issues, unlike GM's ever present oiling problems of that era.

The Cobra was 3650 lbs, not 3900 lbs BTW. A pullied Eaton is tame as far as Cobras go, so I'm sure you did fine with your friend's car. I never had any issues smoking any C4 or C5 Corvette I came across back in the day, but mine was definitely not stock. Nobody kept an 03 Cobra stock. It was a 700 crank HP car with a blower swap and fuel pump/injector upgrade. You can argue mod for mod all you want, but no GM V8 was doing 600+ HP to the wheels with $3500 in mods back then. It took the C6 Z06 to even make a game of it. Modded C6 Z06s would pull on my car. Stock ones didn't fare so well. You were still taking about $40K in one car vs $100K in the other at that point too.

I cleaned all the rubber off of it, turned it down and put it on drag radials- so I'm sure there's plenty out there that would drag it's ass now, but it's had no money thrown at it in nearly 10 years so that's to be expected. It's fun, fast and never breaks, so I'm not touching it. If it ever does blow, I'll build an engine and feed that bitch so much boost and E85.... It sucks Ford dropped all support of the 4V 4.6L parts in favor of the more glass jawed 5.0L Coyote, but it's all out there still. 1000 HP is easy pickings now.

 

[Badgertits]

WTF difference does it make if it had a blower or not? The 4.6L S/C Cobra engine was all off the shelf parts bin stuff with the Eaton grafted on top, nice rods, and decent pistons. The same iron engine block went into the Cobra as the GT Mustangs. The same 4V heads that the Aviator and Marauder got were used. It had the same Kellogg crank as every Cobra from 1996+ had. The major upgrades over the other non-S/C engines were the basically the Manley rods and Mahle pistons to keep it together in their dyno tests.

The Lightning was a S/C 2V 5.4L. The Cobra was a S/C 4V 4.6L. The Lightning had a cast steel crank, the Cobra had a forged steel crank. But again, the Lighting was essentially a stock F150 engine with a blower bolted onto it. There was nothing really special about it other than the blower. The base engine were very strong and had no major issues, unlike GM's ever present oiling problems of that era.

The Cobra was 3650 lbs, not 3900 lbs BTW. A pullied Eaton is tame as far as Cobras go, so I'm sure you did fine with your friend's car. I never had any issues smoking any C4 or C5 Corvette I came across back in the day, but mine was definitely not stock. Nobody kept an 03 Cobra stock. It was a 700 crank HP car with a blower swap and fuel pump/injector upgrade. You can argue mod for mod all you want, but no GM V8 was doing 600+ HP to the wheels with $3500 in mods back then. It took the C6 Z06 to even make a game of it. Modded C6 Z06s would pull on my car. Stock ones didn't fare so well. You were still taking about $40K in one car vs $100K in the other at that point too.

I cleaned all the rubber off of it, turned it down and put it on drag radials- so I'm sure there's plenty out there that would drag it's ass now, but it's had no money thrown at it in nearly 10 years so that's to be expected. It's fun, fast and never breaks, so I'm not touching it. If it ever does blow, I'll build an engine and feed that bitch so much boost and E85.... It sucks Ford dropped all support of the 4V 4.6L parts in favor of the more glass jawed 5.0L Coyote, but it's all out there still. 1000 HP is easy pickings now.

Yeah it’s a good drivetrain in a pretty rough platform. If ya really wanted to pound down the 1/4 mile a lot of guys dropped the IRS for straight axle right? I guess you’re right - it wasn’t THAT fat- but 3665 lbs for the coupe & 3780 lbs for the vert, which my buddy had- is pretty ******** close to 3900 lbs which I probably had in my head cuz that’s what his weighed w/ whatever he had in it - gas included. Still- it takes that much more HP to overcome a 600 lb deficit- there’s not much to compare between a C5 Z06 and a termi cobra- let alone C6Z, HP #s don’t tell the whole story- and as you know mod for mod it’s always gonna be in the favor of the lighter more purpose built performance cars.

But hold the presses- you reminded me like many other cobras back in the day the fastest biggest reliable power ones had full on blower swaps- Kenney bells usually right? Hence why my buddy found a near pristine one to drop in his marauder? Only fair comparison is to slap a blower on the C5Z you’re literally bolting on a newer bigger better blower lol

This thread go way off the rails.....but considering the original topic is ridiculous & will never happen anyhow, probably fitting.

I like those termi Cobras too man, from what I know the 4.6/5.4 were easier/cheaper to mod/work on & more reliable - albeit less potent- than the 5.0s

My entire point when I’ve commented in this thread though is that ford fanboys aside- MANY gearhead/car enthusiasts have no big hole in their heart nostalgia for Ford’s (mostly) inferior engines compared to GM/mopar/Daimler/even Toyota to a degree over the years.

Plain matter of fact- Ford STILL has yet to Produce a V8 1/2 ton that eclipses the power output of a ******** ‘07 Sierra Denali. That’s just fact. They DID produce the most powerful factory 4x4 truck to date though....it just has an EB instead of a Ford 3v.....If that doesn’t tell ya all you need to know I don’t know what to tell ya.

Their highest performance car ever made - EB.

Their best selling vehicle ever- EB. Multiple versions.

Their largest most luxurious body on frame SUVs? EB. Or hybrid EB.

Did anyone in mainstream media give a flying F about the new GT500 or 350 motor? Nope. How many times you heard/seen ford & media hype on their future electric mustang?

Meanwhile Dodge is dropping hellcat motors in their SUVs & GMs now old LS3 > than a coyote- sell those LS3 crate motors like hot cakes. By and large Ford focuses on & produces more variations of their smaller displacement EB & hybrid powertrains, and its not a “new” phenomenon.

Instead of arguing bout what might have been or holding out hope that ford brings some low volume production, lightly engineered afterthought of a blown V8 to the mix to make Ford V8 lovers happy you should instead stick w/ those modular 4.6/5.4s I guess & infuse new life into them.

I like my LS6 still- better than my previous 6.2 Ecotec, easier to work on....& I hate that GM put that AFM hardware in the performance V8s...but it’s just an excuse to drop a cam in em.

Long live the HO 3.5 EB ahahhahahhaha

 

[Derail]

All I hope for is that Ford makes the NexGen Raptor the best at what it is.