My first Raptor - some questions

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spack

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I have a gen2 as well. Your 3rd item: In my opinion this is common and it’s not hunting or slipping. There are some things to consider with this truck. Firstly, the driver is not directly in control of anything except the brake and steering. That includes, the engine’s throttle body, the torque converter lock-up, and of course a transmission gear change involving the release of at least one clutch and a grab of another. Unlike a car where the throttle pedal is mechanically connected to the throttle body, and a shift involves a lot less system level coordination, your truck on an upshift for example, eases up on the throttle pre-shift, make the gear release and grab change, applies the throttle again. And right in that time space is a torque converter lockup (3rd/4th and beyond, between 30 and 50 mph). My point is, play with it and pay attention to see if you can discern these events. Put it in sport mode and try that. Or manual mode. The transmission hydraulic pressures are much higher in those two modes and the transmission release and grab are much quicker and harsher. In manual mode you’ll be able to easily feel when the torque converter locks up because you can rule out the shift. Make the shift after lockup and see what you think. It’s also my opinion that ford doesn’t have all this timing perfectly coordinated in certain circumstances. It can be tricked by operator input. Retraining the transmission may help. For me that has always been temporary. For me, 4th is sloppy (sometimes) in normal mode, 5th is extra harsh in sport mode. Despite all that, I find the entire system to be pretty interesting and downshift rev matching is particularly good in sport and manual.

I’ll spare you my thoughts on cam phasers :)
 
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konstantinos88
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With regard to:

1. The low frequency vibration is “normal” and goes away after a few seconds. My 2018 does it. Research this forum…others note it too.

3. The shift hesitation means you need to run the transmission relearn process and when done…push the gas pedal further during accelerations :)

4. The PRNDM on the center console? Look at the dash
Hey JL, appreciate the replies!

1. I think I'm 99% sure it actually is an IWE issue because it goes away in 4A
3. I will give this a try
4. Yes, but would like the shifter ones illuminated as well, if they're meant to be!

I have a gen2 as well. Your 3rd item: In my opinion this is common and it’s not hunting or slipping. There are some things to consider with this truck. Firstly, the driver is not directly in control of anything except the brake and steering. That includes, the engine’s throttle body, the torque converter lock-up, and of course a transmission gear change involving the release of at least one clutch and a grab of another. Unlike a car where the throttle pedal is mechanically connected to the throttle body, and a shift involves a lot less system level coordination, your truck on an upshift for example, eases up on the throttle pre-shift, make the gear release and grab change, applies the throttle again. And right in that time space is a torque converter lockup (3rd/4th and beyond, between 30 and 50 mph). My point is, play with it and pay attention to see if you can discern these events. Put it in sport mode and try that. Or manual mode. The transmission hydraulic pressures are much higher in those two modes and the transmission release and grab are much quicker and harsher. In manual mode you’ll be able to easily feel when the torque converter locks up because you can rule out the shift. Make the shift after lockup and see what you think. It’s also my opinion that ford doesn’t have all this timing perfectly coordinated in certain circumstances. It can be tricked by operator input. Retraining the transmission may help. For me that has always been temporary. For me, 4th is sloppy (sometimes) in normal mode, 5th is extra harsh in sport mode. Despite all that, I find the entire system to be pretty interesting and downshift rev matching is particularly good in sport and manual.

I’ll spare you my thoughts on cam phasers :)
Hey Spack, thank you for this -- it perfect describes the process I've noticed, regarding pre-shift, loss of throttle, short delay, engagement, and reapplication of throttle. I've also noticed that it does it almost 100% of the time upon first drive, the first time it gets into 4th. The rest of the time isn't quite as noticeable. I will try the things you mentioned in sport and manual to further diagnose.

I would be interesting to hear what you think about cam phasers! Dealer told me my truck doesn't have any open recalls, but I'm not 100% sure about what's in there. I might try and get a complete history on the truck to see what's been done in the past at other Ford dealers.
 

spack

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I’m almost in the same boat as you. I bought 2018 1 year ago. 85k on it. It took a bit of digging to find out what had been done to it. Since then, being kinda possessed by the cam phaser thing, I bought cam phaser that had failed. A few varieties. I wrote some stuff up on the forum…. Search for “cam phasers from the top”. Or something like that. Since then, I found and refined the cause. I’ll make a video of parts tear down with my thoughts tomorrow maybe
 

dleclerc27

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Welcome aboard! I also dealt with an IWE fix, which takes 2 minutes. I actually ordered a spare one just to have on hand. I have done a fair bit of work to my 2018 802a SCREW, but I will say that one of the best things I’ve done is getting the Cobb/@GooseTuned TCM done. This thing just glides through gears and doesn’t clunk around anywhere near like it used to.
 
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konstantinos88
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Welcome aboard! I also dealt with an IWE fix, which takes 2 minutes. I actually ordered a spare one just to have on hand. I have done a fair bit of work to my 2018 802a SCREW, but I will say that one of the best things I’ve done is getting the Cobb/@GooseTuned TCM done. This thing just glides through gears and doesn’t clunk around anywhere near like it used to.
Thanks for the info! I did the same yesterday with the IWE check valve, so I'm going to try the valve first and hopefully the hub-portion of the system does not need replacing after a couple weeks of grinding away.

the Cobb / GooseTunedTCM is literally in the open tab next to this one as well so it's on my list to buy very very soon
 

spack

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Video too big. I’ll find another way. But this is what I wrote before figuring that out…

I went back and read my post, ‘phasers - from the top’ so as not to re-cover much that is there. In that post there was some material on what is different about the updated cam phasers. But there was an important difference that I neglected, and I have come to the conclusion that it is critical.

Let’s first note some of the cam phasers update sequence in part numbers. When the raptor ecoboost truck was released, the cam part numbers were prefixed with the letters HL3Z and suffixed with a 2 letter revision number such as CB, CC, and finally CD as the last one. Then subsequently, a new part was released by a new manufacturer and this part was prefixed with the letters ML3Z and suffixed with the letter ‘A’. I know the differences between cc, cd, the ml3z-a parts, but not earlier HL3Z parts. Interestingly, when HL3Z-***-CD came out, ML3Z-***-A was flagged as an alternate. Then, in a subsequent bulletin, CD was flagged as the alternate and ML3Z as the primary.

Now the differences. Recall from the ‘from the top post’, a patent was noted. The “prior art” discussed in that patent is the ford design (and many others). The oil pressure which pushes the locking pin out to the unlocked position, is the same oil pressure that retards the exhaust or advances the intake. This means there is a shear force tangential to the unlock motion, and this is a source of wear on the lock pin well. Over time, the exiting pin will ream out the rim of the well on one side. You can find lots of pictures of this from just about any manufacturer from Toyota to Bugatti. And if this happens at 150k miles or greater, no one will be surprised, just grumbling. But ford has had a problem at very low mileages in some cases. In the attached video, you can see that on the CD part there is a modification to the pin well from the CC part to the CD part. This will have been done to improve the prior art aspect of the problem. The well in the CC part (not shown) had a partial well. Meaning the well side wall on about 25% of the well was not present. This is where oil flowed in. In the CD part, this was remedied. The side wall exists, and oil is allowed to enter at the bottom of the well. Assuming ford thought shear force was the issue, this was a big step towards fixing it. The ML3Z part also has this robustness. Different, but not materially so.

The ML3Z part however has another distinct difference. As noted in the other post, the lock pin is pushed into the well by a spring when the pin is over the well hole and oil pressure is cut. The spring is pretty close to what you would find in any old ballpoint pen. Fragile and much smaller in diameter than the pin itself. The non-pin side of the spring is centered by a plastic component. Here is the big difference. In the HL3Z parts, that piece of plastic slides on the back plate as the rotor moves. It’s lubricated by the phaser oil pressure but it is subject to wear. It is important that oil be able to seep past it. In the ML3Z part, this plastic piece is altogether different. It press fit into the rotor and does not contact the back plate. It is not subject to any sliding wear, ever.

I originally dismissed this difference. Then I talked to a guy on the forum who described looking at his disassembled HL3Z-***-CC part and said the plastic piece had disintegrated. If that piece is not there, the spring has nothing to center it. At a minimum the spring wears and fast because the surface contact is so small. It could also just fold up. Without sufficient spring pressure, the pin might not seat, or may jam. Who knows. A rattling phaser with minimal well rim wear is surely this problem. That is what the guy on the forum showed. Not a lot of rim wear.

The question is, which wear happens first; the patent shear wear or pin disintegration. My thinking has evolved to this: the pin well wear is a 150k mile failure. The plastic is a 10k to 50k mile hazard. My thinking is indeed that the ML3Z part knocks both problems on the head. The CD part hits one of them…

See the video for some detail on this…

Now, perhaps this is not what you were after or care about. When I bought my truck I wanted to know if I had the latest phaser parts and the 21b03 software. I checked ford’s fordpass app. There was no mention in there. But there were records and where the work was performed. I called the service centers one by one and gave them the vin and dates. Sure enough, I found a ford service center that had done the phaser update and software. It was under warranty at the time and they apparently don’t log that sort of thing in anything fordpass has access to. They sent me the service records and it shows I have the CD part. There is about 50k miles on them. I hear there is a ford database called oasis, which any ford service center has access to. That should show such work. I’ve never looked but I would recommend you try.
 

spack

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I found the picture I was looking for. This was posted by @kindofblue after his phaser repair. It’s a picture of a compromised backplate of the CD part, not the well hole plate. This plate should be perfectly flat with no machining. Yet it has a cut in it, the width of the lock pin, in the travel arc of the rotor. That was cut by the back of the lock pin… the spring and plastic side. That is physically impossible to have happen unless the plastic piece has partially or completely disintegrated. Without the spring properly aligned, the unlock oil pressure pushes the back of the pin against this plate. This failure cannot happen with the ML3Z part. It can happen with any version of HL3Z parts
 

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