Low Mileage Maintenance Schedule

[GordoJay]

Why all the subie hate?

I'm gonna guess it's that tribal thing among those who identify strongly with their cars. Then there are the folks who aren't secure in their own choice that try to validate it by pissing on all other options. There are probably other reasons.

 

[jamanrr]

Yep does TJ even own a Raptor? And Badger **** what value does he add.

My vette smokes these rice burners blah blah, lol

And TJ didn't know enough to understand fuji heavy industries owns subaru with a split in development off the orginal airplane industries. To each their own I am an automobile enthusiast and while I mainly focus on the STI, I can appreciate all cars.

Instead some dude flames the STI and me as a typical rice burner owner which is not the case.

 

[TurboTJ]

I'm gonna guess it's that tribal thing among those who identify strongly with their cars. Then there are the folks who aren't secure in their own choice that try to validate it by pissing on all other options. There are probably other reasons.

Yes, it couldn’t possibly be that there are serious design issues with a couple of cars clearly listed out a couple of pages before, it must be a conspiracy against Subaru! You guys caught me! Big conspiracy against Subaru.

Subaru makes great cars, but the turbo boxer does not fall into this category.

Yep does TJ even own a Raptor? And Badger **** what value does he add.

My vette smokes these rice burners blah blah, lol

And TJ didn't know enough to understand fuji heavy industries owns subaru with a split in development off the orginal airplane industries. To each their own I am an automobile enthusiast and while I mainly focus on the STI, I can appreciate all cars.

Instead some dude flames the STI and me as a typical rice burner owner which is not the case.

I guess I’m still waiting to hear which aircraft use EJ engines with turbochargers. Try not to get so emotional.

 

[jamanrr]

The Fa200

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuji_FA-200_Aero_Subaru

https://www.subaru.co.jp/en/fa200/

does that answer your question?and I never said it had turbo chargers or was an EJ -- the boxer design of the EJ has its roots back to this engine.

Japanese have always been able to take weird engineered engines such as the Wankel and the boxer motor, improve on them then mass produce them. When I was growing up the Camaro was a 140 hp **** wagon along with the low HP Mustang. I grew up on Supras, MR2s, Celicas, NX2000s, 240sxs, 300zxs, and 3000gts. Having owned all of them and never blown them up once sometimes pushing 400+ hp to the wheels got me addicted.

 

[TurboTJ]

…I never said it had turbo chargers or was an EJ -- the boxer design of the EJ has its roots back to this engine..

What?

The EJ motor from Subaru has also been used in Japan trainer aircraft, and helicopter motors it is a good engine.

If you are just gonna start lying about what’s plainly visible in your previous posts, then I don’t know where to go from here.

As I’ve said before, certain aircraft and even some vehicles are a good match for boxer engines due to cooling and packaging constraints. The STI is not one of them and that’s why Subaru is considering going away from them.

 

[jamanrr]

What?


If you are just gonna start lying about what’s plainly visible in your previous posts, then I don’t know where to go from here.

As I’ve said before, certain aircraft and even some vehicles are a good match for boxer engines due to cooling and packaging constraints. The STI is not one of them and that’s why Subaru is considering going away from them.

The EJ is used in ultralights and helicopters and is derived from the Subaru Aero so technically they are both boxers. Funny that both Mitsubishi and Subaru both trace their manufacturing roots back to the P zero the same WWII plane that without the introduction of the P51, then the war could have gone a different direction. Lots of car companies have roots in aircraft including Rolls Royce, Honda, and of course SAAB.

Again do you even own a Raptor? I keep responding to your ignorant posts and am just wondering because you talk major smack about Subaru and how it is crap. If you owned one or have had several ones then I would not think that you would feel that way. I love my STI and I love my Raptor. I had a Gen 1 when I bought my 16 STI new. I enjoy fast cars and have fun with it. Why do I care if some Raptor jock hanger cares if he thinks it is crap?

 

[DrJacks]

The EJ is used in ultralights and helicopters and is derived from the Subaru Aero so technically they are both boxers. Funny that both Mitsubishi and Subaru both trace their manufacturing roots back to the P zero the same WWII plane that without the introduction of the P51, then the war could have gone a different direction. Lots of car companies have roots in aircraft including Rolls Royce, Honda, and of course SAAB.

Again do you even own a Raptor? I keep responding to your ignorant posts and am just wondering because you talk major smack about Subaru and how it is crap. If you owned one or have had several ones then I would not think that you would feel that way. I love my STI and I love my Raptor. I had a Gen 1 when I bought my 16 STI new. I enjoy fast cars and have fun with it. Why do I care if some Raptor jock hanger cares if he thinks it is crap?

The ol “does he even own a Ford Raptor” strategy. You must be desperate.

I thought he stated his reasons pretty well already. Why don’t you tell him why each reason on his list is technically incorrect?

 

[jamanrr]

• Boxer engines create a lot of complexity for little/no benefit. For example, there is twice as many cam shafts which mean twice as many actuators for VVT, twice as many head gaskets (which are know to fail and repair requires REMOVING the engine) twice as many cam seals. All of this more or less equates to twice as many problems

You are right in a DOHC flat four setup there is definitely 4 cams, 2 head gaskets, and a very large serpentine timing belt too. Again, under normal conditions with premium fuel, synthetic oil changes, and normal maintenance the engine will last 100s of thousand of miles with no problem. I have owned two of these a blue 08 wagon and a 16 white sedan never any problems with either of them.

Plus GYMKHANA STI VIRAL VIDEOS are Awesome

• The cylinder is flat meaning getting an even oil distribution is difficult/impossible.

Not true with the oil pickup redesign and piston oil squirters this simply is not true.

• The turbocharger cannot be located near the exhaust ports meaning you must run a smaller turbine wheel to get decent spool. Smaller turbine wheels lead to higher EGT’s which create a ton of problems (don’t ask me how I know). This is why for a long time, the STI despite having 25% more displacement actually had a smaller turbo than the Evo.

This may be true on this motor and the EJ is an old design but the FA has DIT and this is not the case. Actually before they discontinued it the Forrester XT turbo came with the WRX motor and not the EJ as in previous year model WRX/ Forresters. The FA uses a twin scroll turbo pulls especially well and they actually pull potential HP from it to make it safer.

• The exhaust routing makes equal length headers more difficult making twin scroll less/not effective

Maybe but it sounds awesome and a lot better than a EVO.

• The entire engine is cantilevered in front of the front wheels! Mass ahead of the front wheels REDUCES the weight measured at the rear wheels. This is already a problem on front engine cars and Subaru has exacerbated it

It can distribute more than 50 percent of its torque to the rear wheels. However, it does under steer some and wants to push through corners but this can be over come with camber adjustments which most who race them do anyway.

• Top mount intercooler. I probably don’t need to say more
• Try changing spark plugs

A front mount setup typically leads to much greater turbo lag. As far as the spark plugs go that is not too bad. I have specialty tools but remove the battery and air pump on one side and then the air intake box on the other and it takes like 30 minutes but yes the dealer charges 300-400 bucks to do this.

• Turbocharger plumbing - turbo plumbing is already difficult but when you locate all four cylinders in the four corners of the engine bay, you make it worst and getting perfectly even flow in/out of each one is hard
• Timing belts must be twice as long (which makes stretch an issue) or you must have two
• Basic maintenance on the cylinder heads requires removing the entire engine.

The plumbing comment is true but they make polished intake manifolds and metal plumbing which will increase flow. If the timing belt concerns you which I have never seen one that has stretched then get a kevlar one. If you consider a head gasket job a minor repair then yes you will have to take the engine out of the car.

However, almost all you are talking about is tuning and that is the reason most people blow their STIs up. The stock internals are good for 400 whp and anything up to or over 500 whp requires forged pistons. Basically, all you said was that the engine is a bad design which is not really the case. It is a good design for the power levels it produces. The EJ does not handle detonation as well as the high HP inline such as Mitsus 4G64 or Nissans SR20. With that said many people forge the pistons, sleave the block and make 1000 whp all day everyday. The support for the STI is light years beyond the EVO as far as companies selling parts.

The WRX STI is the best selling, longest running, and most produced rally car in the world today. The next generation with its FA24 DIT might be more in tune with what people want as far as the ability to make a reliable 450 whp and get 25 mpg while doing it.

As far as Subaru getting anyway from the boxer motor. I doubt it since the FA is the next generation of motors. Subaru may move to EV but that is every car maker in existence today.

 

[TurboTJ]

You are right in a DOHC flat four setup there is definitely 4 cams, 2 head gaskets, and a very large serpentine timing belt too. Again, under normal conditions with premium fuel, synthetic oil changes, and normal maintenance the engine will last 100s of thousand of miles with no problem. I have owned two of these a blue 08 wagon and a 16 white sedan never any problems with either of them.

Plus GYMKHANA STI VIRAL VIDEOS are Awesome



Not true with the oil pickup redesign and piston oil squirters this simply is not true.



This may be true on this motor and the EJ is an old design but the FA has DIT and this is not the case. Actually before they discontinued it the Forrester XT turbo came with the WRX motor and not the EJ as in previous year model WRX/ Forresters. The FA uses a twin scroll turbo pulls especially well and they actually pull potential HP from it to make it safer.



Maybe but it sounds awesome and a lot better than a EVO.




It can distribute more than 50 percent of its torque to the rear wheels. However, it does under steer some and wants to push through corners but this can be over come with camber adjustments which most who race them do anyway.



A front mount setup typically leads to much greater turbo lag. As far as the spark plugs go that is not too bad. I have specialty tools but remove the battery and air pump on one side and then the air intake box on the other and it takes like 30 minutes but yes the dealer charges 300-400 bucks to do this.



The plumbing comment is true but they make polished intake manifolds and metal plumbing which will increase flow. If the timing belt concerns you which I have never seen one that has stretched then get a kevlar one. If you consider a head gasket job a minor repair then yes you will have to take the engine out of the car.

However, almost all you are talking about is tuning and that is the reason most people blow their STIs up. The stock internals are good for 400 whp and anything up to or over 500 whp requires forged pistons. Basically, all you said was that the engine is a bad design which is not really the case. It is a good design for the power levels it produces. The EJ does not handle detonation as well as the high HP inline such as Mitsus G54 or Nissans SR. With that said many people forge the pistons, sleave the block and make 1000 whp all day everyday. The support for the STI is light years beyond the EVO as far as companies selling parts.

The WRX STI is the best selling, longest running, and most produced rally car in the world today. The next generation with its FA24 DIT might be more in tune with what people want as far as the ability to make a reliable 450 whp and get 25 mpg while doing it.

As far as Subaru getting anyway from the boxer motor. I doubt it since the FA is the next generation of motors. Subaru may move to EV but that is every car maker in existence today.

Thank you! This is all I was looking for - a technical discussion rather than citing publicity stunts or exchanging personal insults. I think it’s fine to have an STI while being aware of some of these shortcomings and deciding that the pros outweigh the cons for your use case.

Most of us with Evo’s are former STI owners. I grew up in the backseat of a 1995 legacy, which had multiple AWD failures (viscous coupling I believe), but I think it was still a very reliable car for the mid 90’s.

Personally, This seems like a lot of reasons why an in-line engine is better but now I understand your reasons. To me, performance is more important than just about anything but I get it if you want a classic Subi sound more than twin scroll or don’t care so much about the understeer/weight distro (or Want good warranty coverage and trunk space!), then maybe an STI is best for you. If/when Subaru switches away from the boxer, I will be the first in line to get one

 

[jamanrr]

Thank you! This is all I was looking for - a technical discussion rather than citing publicity stunts or exchanging personal insults. I think it’s fine to have an STI while being aware of some of these shortcomings and deciding that the pros outweigh the cons for your use case.

Most of us with Evo’s are former STI owners. I grew up in the backseat of a 1995 legacy, which had multiple AWD failures (viscous coupling I believe), but I think it was still a very reliable car for the mid 90’s.

Personally, This seems like a lot of reasons why an in-line engine is better but now I understand your reasons. To me, performance is more important than just about anything but I get it if you want a classic Subi sound more than twin scroll or don’t care so much about the understeer/weight distro (or Want good warranty coverage and trunk space!), then maybe an STI is best for you. If/when Subaru switches away from the boxer, I will be the first in line to get one

Well Subaru does go back and forth a lot and it drives me crazy. They will put the rear seat cup holder/ arm rests in various years i.e. my 08 had them in the hatch but my 16 Sedan does not. They also for some reason to get more engine sound in the cockpit routed the air intake into the front vents. They did away with this in 18 or so and makes no sense again. Instead of redesigning the model every 2-3 years like the Toyota Camry or Honda Accord they keep an WRX/ STI design for 5+ years typically. It is due for another redesign soon so maybe it will be something that you want. I thought the Raptor was fast or as fast as the STI but the STI will smoke a Raptor.

I apologize for messing this OPs thread up and turning it into a Subaru thread. LOL