Leveling the front with spacers, not the perch adjustment

[BigJ]

Thanks PA. I don't think I was questioning the theory, but I don't think the concerns they raise (specifically the bump stops limiting up travel, and suspension components limiting down) apply here. Mark raised the same concerns with the down travel, but we've done the measurements and all checks out just fine with plenty of room to spare on the Raptor.

So I guess my point was not to chose the perch adjustment over the spacer method based on fears of limiting travel. The spacer mod doesn't limit travel in the Raptor specifically, like that doc would lead you to believe it does in general.

 

[Blukrom]

Hmm normally I'm not a fan of using general marketing material as an information source, and that link kinda shows why. I don't think anything they're talking about applies to us anyway.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong?

Hmm dont quite understand why it doesnt??? Its a comparison of the spacer to a perch adjustable shock. Showing what it does in terms of suspension travel and forces applied to those compnents. The shock is the same concept as the Fox shock with the perch adjustments. The front end is the same on the standard ford (sans longer A arms) as the standard Ford.
In the end it stating the same things that the previous post did, just with some graphics to help it along.

Am I missing something?

 

[BigJ]

^^Yeah its almost the same. But they say this when referring to installing spacers: "This will far exceed the limits of the suspension down-travel and increase the likelihood of component damage." When it comes to our Raptors, we've shown it doesn't exceed the limits and that there won't be any damage.

And in terms of up travel they call out bump stops as limiting factor. I don't believe that's true on the Raptor either.

Also, they don't really go into all the (possible) negatives of the perch mod.

I dunno. Even beyond the specific vs general concerns I just pointed out, reading it gave me the strong sense they're trying to sell me on their product, rather than trying to educate me on all the ramifications of both mods. I mean the title of the doc is "Why Bilstein 5100 Series Leveling Shocks are far superior to coilover spacer kits". That doesn't really give me confidence that I'm about to read an unbiased overview of either mod, ya know?

Like most things, YMMV

 

[pirate air]

Thanks PA. I don't think I was questioning the theory, but I don't think the concerns they raise (specifically the bump stops limiting up travel, and suspension components limiting down) apply here. Mark raised the same concerns with the down travel, but we've done the measurements and all checks out just fine with plenty of room to spare on the Raptor.

So I guess my point was not to chose the perch adjustment over the spacer method based fears of limiting travel. The spacer mod doesn't limit travel in the Raptor specifically, like that doc would lead you to believe it does in general.

Yeah either method will allow the shock to bump stop at full compression, that I agree. But I don't completely agree the shock will be the component to limit down travel as its needed (and all will be ok) because of a few factors involved. Thinking out loud..

Not all spacer companies do their home work to look at things like issues during full droop. There are several kits out for the Raptor; just because yours didn't have issues, doesn't mean someone who buys Joe Blow's ****** Wok Suspension inc won't end up with a loaded upper ball joint at full droop.

I've also heard instances where people have used a spacer kit on the Raptor and the upper control arm comes in contact with the coil spring at full droop. This doesn't surprise as nearly every spacer kit I've seen or reluctantly installed on an F-150 does this. This may not cause the upper ball joint or control arm/spring contact to limit down travel at full droop, but its not ideal for the upper ball joint imo.

If with the spacer kit the shock is still allowed to limit down travel at full droop, this still does not mean the upper ball joint is not now under a greater tension force and at a higher/max'd degree angle. These are both forces that a ball joint does not favor. At this point an after market control arm with a uni ball is required imo.

 

[pirate air]

^^Yeah its almost the same. But they say this when referring to installing spacers: "This will far exceed the limits of the suspension down-travel and increase the likelihood of component damage." When it comes to our Raptors, we've shown it doesn't exceed the limits and that there won't be any damage.

And in terms of up travel they call out bump stops as limiting factor. I don't believe that's true on the Raptor either.

Also, they don't really go into all the (possible) negatives of the perch mod.

I dunno. Even beyond the specific vs general concerns I just pointed out, reading it gave me the strong sense they're trying to sell me on their product, rather than trying to educate me on all the ramifications of both mods. I mean the title of the doc is "Why Bilstein 5100 Series Leveling Shocks are far superior to coilover spacer kits". That doesn't really give me confidence that I'm about to read an unbiased overview of either mod, ya know?

Like most things, YMMV

When you did this, how was the test done? What instruments were used to measure the forces now applied to the upper ball joint at droop?

 

[BigJ]

When you did this, how was the test done? What instruments were used to measure the forces now applied to the upper ball joint at droop?

Well you've got me there. All the evidence I have is anecdotal, and I should have said that in my post. My bad.

So while I cannot give you numbers, I can say that in my experience its a gross exaggeration to say that the Truxxx spacer mod specifically "will far exceed the limits of the suspension". That simply doesn't seem to be true, as my experience would seem to suggest.

Fair enough?

 

[ISFast]

BigJ I also went with the Truxxx Kit. I'll have to read through this thread. I did mine a year ago with 20k+ on the kit with no problems.

 

[IRONMAN]

Daystar 2" kit here.
So far so good.

 

[Blukrom]

Hey I'm liking the new look ironman.
I like what you did with the slash pic.

BigJ I agree with the company propaganda and that article but since I knew you werent shopping for shocks and the principal is very similar to the fox perch I thought it would be helpful. Obviously fox and ford thought about this during the design process otherwise the shocks would not have the adjustment.
So I figure why spend money when there is no reason to? This is virtually a free mod there for the taking.
I can tell you this, I had a daystar spacer on my fx4 for several years and it worked fine other than the fact that the spring used to hit the upper control arm and the fit was really tight. When I replaced the shocks I did go with the Bilstein shocks and am currently running on the top perch. Nothing rubs and I didn't have to pry on anything to reinstall the shocks as I did with the spacer. Anyhow that was my experience.

 

[troycrna]

Will an ADD winch bumper with a winch make the front end sag anymore. I am gonna go to middle perch and was a little curious if the added weight will sag the front end again if on middle perch.