Is it just me? or Does anyone think the Brakes suck..

[Johnkn]

hmmm. really even with off road tires? you can have the best brakes but the stopping distance is going to be based on the tires.

Not sure why you continue to propagate that ********. Tires are a smallish part of the equation, proper calipers, rotors, lines, MC and proportioning, heat dissipation, and fluid represent the majority of the equation.

Example, ask anyone here who has upgraded their braking system if they have seen significantly better braking performance, the answer is yes across the board, zero tire change....

.

 

[zombiekiller]

hmmm. really even with off road tires? you can have the best brakes but the stopping distance is going to be based on the tires.

so I've got the same tires on the truck that I had with factory brakes. ( in the stock config and with upgraded pads/rotors).


These are Dakar compound BFG KR3s that aren't available, even to racers any longer.

and they were cold. ( it'll stop even better when they are up to temp)

and the short answer is... YES.


fair warning: you may put your head through the windshield on 35s.

I'm looking forward to putting Alcon brakes on my F-250 now too.

 

[saym14]

Not sure why you continue to propagate that ********. Tires are a smallish part of the equation, proper calipers, rotors, lines, MC and proportioning, heat dissipation, and fluid represent the majority of the equation.

Example, ask anyone here who has upgraded their braking system if they have seen significantly better braking performance, the answer is yes across the board, zero tire change....

.

I agree you can get better performance but that means many things, especially when looking at multiple stops. brake feel, modulation etc. and hopefully you are also going to a brake system that weights significantly less. its not BS, I am only talking about stopping distances which are VERY long for the raptor, I doubt your stopping distances are any better, maybe a couple feet if that. most modern stock brakes are powerful enough to immediately lock up the tires and induce ABS or threshold braking. and the tires are the ONLY link to the pavement thus once at threshold braking the tires are the only factor. maybe the Raptor brakes are so week they cant immediately go into ABS or threshold braking, but I doubt it...not sure I don't have mine yet. I am not saying BBK have no benefits. just talking about long stopping distances, Car and driver rated the raptor as the longest stopping distance for any car they ever tested in, 2018 or was it 2017.

 

[zombiekiller]

I agree you can get better performance but that means many things, especially when looking at multiple stops. brake feel, modulation etc. and hopefully you are also going to a brake system that weights significantly less. its not BS, I am only talking about stopping distances which are VERY long for the raptor, I doubt your stopping distances are any better, maybe a couple feet if that. most modern stock brakes are powerful enough to immediately lock up the tires and induce ABS or threshold braking. and the tires are the ONLY link to the pavement thus once at threshold braking the tires are the only factor. maybe the Raptor brakes are so week they cant immediately go into ABS or threshold braking, but I doubt it...not sure I don't have mine yet. I am not saying BBK have no benefits. just talking about long stopping distances, Car and driver rated the raptor as the longest stopping distance for any car they ever tested in, 2018 or was it 2017.

1. your opinion is skewed because youre comparing pavement stopping to dirt stopping. They are two VERY different use cases and scenarios.


2. The raptor 100% goes direct to ABS threshold braking if you stomp on it. The pedal is linear ( which is very different from just about any other vehicle on the market). If you dont understand how to use linear brakes, it will feel like they suck.


3. multiple 3rd parties have tested the Alcon kit on Raptors and have reported stopping 90 Feet shorter from 60mph on the street.


So don't believe it. or do. whatever. I'm reporting what I'm experiencing. I use my truck harder than 95% or Raptor owners. I'm running tires that are 7, maybe 8 inches taller than stock raptor tires.

If it works for me, and I'm blown away, the brakes will exceed all expectations IMO.

 

[saym14]

1. your opinion is skewed because youre comparing pavement stopping to dirt stopping. They are two VERY different use cases and scenarios.


2. The raptor 100% goes direct to ABS threshold braking if you stomp on it. The pedal is linear ( which is very different from just about any other vehicle on the market). If you dont understand how to use linear brakes, it will feel like they suck.


3. multiple 3rd parties have tested the Alcon kit on Raptors and have reported stopping 90 Feet shorter from 60mph on the street.


So don't believe it. or do. whatever. I'm reporting what I'm experiencing. I use my truck harder than 95% or Raptor owners. I'm running tires that are 7, maybe 8 inches taller than stock raptor tires.

If it works for me, and I'm blown away, the brakes will exceed all expectations IMO.

1. yes I admit I am only talking about on pavement. the tires are a huge part on why Raptor has the longest stopping distances tested in C and D. I am sure Raptor will stop faster than on GT3 on sand. LOL

3. thats huge. I'd love to see these third party instrumented testing.

from CandD
Braking distance from 70 mph remained stable, stretching ever so slightly from 212 feet to 215. No one concerned themselves with the truck's initial 0.69-g and final 0.70-g lateral-acceleration numbers.

do you know what the weight savings is for the alcon kit ?

 

[zombiekiller]

1. yes I admit I am only talking about on pavement. the tires are a huge part on why Raptor has the longest stopping distances tested in C and D. I am sure Raptor will stop faster than on GT3 on sand. LOL

3. thats huge. I'd love to see these third party instrumented testing.

from CandD
Braking distance from 70 mph remained stable, stretching ever so slightly from 212 feet to 215. No one concerned themselves with the truck's initial 0.69-g and final 0.70-g lateral-acceleration numbers.

do you know what the weight savings is for the alcon kit ?

they're heavier.

 

[Todd Turbo S]

so I've got the same tires on the truck that I had with factory brakes. ( in the stock config and with upgraded pads/rotors).

These are Dakar compound BFG KR3s that aren't available, even to racers any longer.

and they were cold. ( it'll stop even better when they are up to temp)

and the short answer is... YES.


fair warning: you may put your head through the windshield on 35s.

I'm looking forward to putting Alcon brakes on my F-250 now too.

The Alcon set up is my next purchase. Just want to wait a bit before pulling the trigger as I’m considering getting larger wheels so I can go with the Brembo set up. I have them on my G63 and Porsche’s, they are amazing. On my G, I believe overall it’s heavier then our Raptors and the braking is effortlessly.

 

[zombiekiller]

The Alcon set up is my next purchase. Just want to wait a bit before pulling the trigger as I’m considering getting larger wheels so I can go with the Brembo set up. I have them on my G63 and Porsche’s, they are amazing. On my G, I believe overall it’s heavier then our Raptors and the braking is effortlessly.

Food for thought: Alcon is used heavily in desert sports (Jamar is the other "standard".

The alcons are designed for this sort of use. I cant speak to the brembos. ( I've had brembo on sports cars too. I am a fan)

The rotors and pads for the alcons are expensive, but for good reason. I haven't heard one ill word about the Alcon setup.

I don't have another wheel size option because I am in Love with my tires. I am going to be seriously bummed when the tires need to be replaced because I won't be able to get another set.

 

[FordTechOne]

(Fade is not as much as the pads getting hot but brake fluid reaching boiling point.)

not true. Fade is hot gasses building up between pads and disc usually due to repeated hard stopping. Hit the pedal and u get little friction

boiling fluid is also due to overheating or sometimes air in the lines or both. When u hit the pedal the pedal goes to the floor

Partially true. Brake pad out-gassing is a phenomenon that hasn't been an issue since the 70's, which is when brake pad friction material consisted of only organic compounds. With the advent of semi-metallic and and ceramic brake pads with modern compounds, brake pad out-gassing was no longer an issue.

In regards to brake pad induced fade, this still occurs but for a different reason. Every brake pad, regardless of composition, has a specific friction co-efficient that is temperature dependent. A typical OE semi-metallic or ceramic pad in a non-high performance application will exhibit good "bite" (high friction co-efficient) when cold and during normal use, but under track conditions the friction co-efficient will decline as the pads become hotter. This requires more brake pedal effort and travel to slow or stop the vehicle.

On the opposite side of the spectrum is brake pads that are designed for race applications. They squeal badly and stop poorly when cold (street driving), but as they heat up they bite harder and can withstand extreme temperatures without fade. They tend to be very rough on the brake rotors.

As far as fluid reaching the boiling point, this can certainly cause the brake pedal to fade severely. Brake fluid is glycol based (except for DOT5, which is silicone) and absorbs water over time, even in system that hasn't been opened. The more water that is absorbed, the lower the brake fluid boiling point becomes. When the fluid boils, it changes from a liquid to a gas (air). As you mentioned, air in the lines can significantly increase brake pedal travel or result in a complete loss of brake function.

 

[Todd Turbo S]

Food for thought: Alcon is used heavily in desert sports (Jamar is the other "standard".

The alcons are designed for this sort of use. I cant speak to the brembos. ( I've had brembo on sports cars too. I am a fan)

The rotors and pads for the alcons are expensive, but for good reason. I haven't heard one ill word about the Alcon setup.

I don't have another wheel size option because I am in Love with my tires. I am going to be seriously bummed when the tires need to be replaced because I won't be able to get another set.

I appreciate the feedback