Gen2 Live Valve Full Stiffness Cause?

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Kyle@Apollo-Optics

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Thanks for the reply Kyle. I would agree since it appears the issue has been gradual over time, that it may be shock wear related. I guess I was just expecting the damping capability to be less, not more. I guess I will go ahead and bite the bullet on new/rebuild shocks.

Darn, I was hoping I would be in a good spot to drop the 7k on the fancy Fox shocks when it came time. But after paying for a new bulkhead, about to pay for floors for the entire house, and a 2 year old that my wife blows a ton of money on, that’s going to have to wait.

I would like to learn to rebuild the shocks, but I don’t have the time right now to do that. Know of any good places to rebuild them around Houston?
Travis,

You are in Houston. You have two options. TSW is in Hudo. You can call them and schedule a day for them to rebuild them. Leave Houston early in the morning. Get there when they open. Have them remove your shocks and rebuild them that day and then drive back home. one day and you are done.

2nd option. I am a huge fan of the SDI E-CLIK. I have been running the E-CLIK on Factory shocks rebuilt and revalved by SDI for 2 years now. Im at 50K miles with my E-CLIK and revolving. As you said with home improvements and your 2 year old Fox FRS shocks may be out of your budget.

I am amazed by what a factory shock can do with the E-CLIK and revalving. My truck is my daily driver. Off-road is amazing along with on road. When we go to the coast we load up my Raptor and I put the shocks in full soft and the truck floats down the freeway like I am in Grandma's Cadillac.

We carry SDI here at Apollo Optics and I would love to put something together for you. If you have more questions just shoot me a message. Happy to help.

Kyle
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Space Ghost

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I am a little stumped... I am hoping some of yall that have more knowledge on the subject than I, have some info that might help me troubleshoot this. From what I gather from searching for this issue, there are others that have had similar issues. But I don't recall seeing a definitive answer on the root cause. If we can figure this one out, hopefully it will help others when/if they have this issue. I will try to be as descriptive as possible for any future people who may read this trying to solve a similar problem (sorry if its a bit long winded)!

My 2019 with 36,000 miles (maybe 300 off road miles mostly beaches), it seems like the shocks are stuck at full stiffness, and got slowly worse over time. Since it's no longer in warranty, I am trying see if I can determine the problem versus just dropping it off at the dealer and letting them run up the bill.

I remember the ride being incredibly smooth when the truck was new, and aiming for potholes just to grin at how good the suspension was. When the truck had about 6k miles, I put Eibachs and +3HD Deavers on, the suspension was notably more stiff, but I don't recall it riding like a dump truck. Almost 30k miles later, getting tired of the harshness during on road use, I put the stock/OEM front springs back on, and replaced the leaf springs with +2SD Deavers. While the suspension softened up a little, it is pretty apparent its no where as smooth as it was when new. Small pot holes and speed bumps that I would have barely noticed when new, now jar the hell out of the truck.

In hindsight, I guess its a little like putting a frog in boiling water vs slowly heating it up. Its obvious to me now that a majority of the harshness of the ride I was getting annoyed with may not have been related to the Eibachs and HD Deavers.

From what I understand, the common areas for the system to fail and cause full stiffness would be the VDM module, wiring harness, solenoids, or the shocks themselves.

1) With Forscan, I checked for any DTCs, none.
2) Ran the ride height recalibration, no difference (tried several times).
3) Reset the VDM with the factory as built config values, no difference.
4) Re-ran the ride height recalibration after resetting the config values, no difference.
5) No matter the mode I put the truck in, sport, normal, baja, the suspension feels the same. I recall there being a pretty noticeable change when the truck was new.

After the ride height recalibration, front ride height sensors read 0mm +- 1mm, rear values read 0mm (no sensors on rear).

I am not sure if this is expected, when monitoring the live data from the VDM with forscan while on flat level pavement, I notice that no matter the mode I put the truck in, values always stay about the same. About 1.6 +- 0.05 amps, and 50% +- 5% duty cycle.

I don't think its the wiring harness, the resistance that the VDM is measuring according to Forscan is 5 ohms to each shock. Ran the self test in forscan for the VDM. No DTCs. If I unplug a shock, it will throw an error.

I don't hear any noticeable humming/noises coming from the solenoids. But I don't know how to rule these out as the cause.

I understand that at 36k miles I am kind of close to the specification for rebuilding the shocks, but then you have people on this forum reporting like 75k miles and barely noticing a difference, and if they do, its a softer ride, not a more harsh ride...

I am kind of at a loss to further narrow down the cause of the harsh ride.
I had an issue around 36 or 37k cant remember, but it would go full stiffness and be horrendous
No codes, reset the ride height in forscan (seemed to help then went back to terrible), got the eclik (helped but didnt solve it), pinpointed it down to the solenoids in the rear.
Swapped them out and boom, back to normal, they were dumb expensive, i ordered them at a discount thru my local ford dealer and they were like $500 for 2.

Im not at 63k miles and shocks still feel good.
I had 81k on my '18 gen 2 and the rebounds just then started feeling worse, not sure if the live valves go on a bit longer/shorter or maybe the eclick/stock settings compensate. Been waiting for them to shitout cause i have FRS in hand but they still feel good
 

Rick at FMS

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I would certainly be interested in the cost for your option 1 (FRS and e-click), and option 2 (OEM and e-click). Those would be very tempting options to consider.

With option 2, does the price change if I provided new OEM shocks for the re-valve vs shocks needing a rebuild?


Short of finding a buddy to swap VDMs with, anybody with a 19 or 20 Gen2 willing to take the time to hook up to Forscan and monitor the VDM live data to see if the duty cycle values change between drive modes?
If you would like to know more, please message me. I am not one to message someone if they didn't want to be messaged in the first place. I value one's privacy and not in sales to bug people with unnecessary messages. Reach out and we can go over some options, whenever you are ready.
 

downforce137

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they arent actually solonoids, but they are electromagnets, that move a needle valve inside the shock..

if you have an issue with any of them, it wont allow you to change drive modes, and should throw a code.

when my truck was on stock, newish shocks i thought it was great on and off the road, but getting a rougher ride seems weird.. you'd think it would get bouncier..

whats your tire pressure??

when i swapped to 3.5 bypass shocks out back, i needed to put a bolt thru the electromagnet or it would throw a code as soon as the truck would move, because its not seeing the resistance in the magentic coil.. (I have FRS LiveValve fronts that i wanted to keep the system active)

seems like whenever i take my truck offroad it always seems to ride a lot better like the next day on the highway home from the dunes, and i wonder if the shim stack or the needles get clogged up or stuck and once the oil is warmed up and flowing good everything starts working again as it should...
 

Space Ghost

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they arent actually solonoids, but they are electromagnets, that move a needle valve inside the shock..

if you have an issue with any of them, it wont allow you to change drive modes, and should throw a code.

when my truck was on stock, newish shocks i thought it was great on and off the road, but getting a rougher ride seems weird.. you'd think it would get bouncier..

whats your tire pressure??

when i swapped to 3.5 bypass shocks out back, i needed to put a bolt thru the electromagnet or it would throw a code as soon as the truck would move, because its not seeing the resistance in the magentic coil.. (I have FRS LiveValve fronts that i wanted to keep the system active)

seems like whenever i take my truck offroad it always seems to ride a lot better like the next day on the highway home from the dunes, and i wonder if the shim stack or the needles get clogged up or stuck and once the oil is warmed up and flowing good everything starts working again as it should...
Mine would let me change drive modes, would ride the same, until i swapped them out
 

letsgetthisdone

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they arent actually solonoids, but they are electromagnets, that move a needle valve inside the shock..

if you have an issue with any of them, it wont allow you to change drive modes, and should throw a code.

when my truck was on stock, newish shocks i thought it was great on and off the road, but getting a rougher ride seems weird.. you'd think it would get bouncier..

whats your tire pressure??

when i swapped to 3.5 bypass shocks out back, i needed to put a bolt thru the electromagnet or it would throw a code as soon as the truck would move, because its not seeing the resistance in the magentic coil.. (I have FRS LiveValve fronts that i wanted to keep the system active)

seems like whenever i take my truck offroad it always seems to ride a lot better like the next day on the highway home from the dunes, and i wonder if the shim stack or the needles get clogged up or stuck and once the oil is warmed up and flowing good everything starts working again as it should...

They are solenoids. Solenoids are an electromagnetically controlled valve.

And they don't control a needle, the live valve is a pretty complex hydraulic flow control valve. If all the solenoid did was control a needle, it wouldn't be able to be PWM'ed, it would be open or closed.
 
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TravisHTX

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It’s the same, about 50K. If you keep your old shocks you can have a set to ride on while you have them in for a rebuild. That’s my plan as of now….

50k, so much for my goal to use a longer service interval as my justification!

I have been thinking the same thing, having a spare set. This truck is my DD as well, so downtime is a factor.
 
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TravisHTX

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Mine would let me change drive modes, would ride the same, until i swapped them out

Based off the facts and others experience here, certainly looks like the highest probability is that the shocks are the fault.
Travis,

You are in Houston. You have two options. TSW is in Hudo. You can call them and schedule a day for them to rebuild them. Leave Houston early in the morning. Get there when they open. Have them remove your shocks and rebuild them that day and then drive back home. one day and you are done.

2nd option. I am a huge fan of the SDI E-CLIK. I have been running the E-CLIK on Factory shocks rebuilt and revalved by SDI for 2 years now. Im at 50K miles with my E-CLIK and revolving. As you said with home improvements and your 2 year old Fox FRS shocks may be out of your budget.

I am amazed by what a factory shock can do with the E-CLIK and revalving. My truck is my daily driver. Off-road is amazing along with on road. When we go to the coast we load up my Raptor and I put the shocks in full soft and the truck floats down the freeway like I am in Grandma's Cadillac.

We carry SDI here at Apollo Optics and I would love to put something together for you. If you have more questions just shoot me a message. Happy to help.

Kyle


If you would like to know more, please message me. I am not one to message someone if they didn't want to be messaged in the first place. I value one's privacy and not in sales to bug people with unnecessary messages. Reach out and we can go over some options, whenever you are ready.

Yea, to me thats the primary selling point for E-Clik. Having full adjustment/control. I feel like Ford kind of shafted us with the control of these shocks. I do have a road trip coming up in a few weeks, so I am trying to get this ride issue sorted before then. Going soft (thats not what she said) on the highway trips sounds nice.

I will send you guys a PM to see what options you guys have!

I had an issue around 36 or 37k cant remember, but it would go full stiffness and be horrendous
No codes, reset the ride height in forscan (seemed to help then went back to terrible), got the eclik (helped but didnt solve it), pinpointed it down to the solenoids in the rear.
Swapped them out and boom, back to normal, they were dumb expensive, i ordered them at a discount thru my local ford dealer and they were like $500 for 2.

Im not at 63k miles and shocks still feel good.
I had 81k on my '18 gen 2 and the rebounds just then started feeling worse, not sure if the live valves go on a bit longer/shorter or maybe the eclick/stock settings compensate. Been waiting for them to shitout cause i have FRS in hand but they still feel good

Not sure how hard you drive your truck. I have beat on mine pretty good a few times. There were a few occasions where the shocks were so hot it felt like their wern't even there, maybe that accounts for the shorter life?


they arent actually solonoids, but they are electromagnets, that move a needle valve inside the shock..

if you have an issue with any of them, it wont allow you to change drive modes, and should throw a code.

when my truck was on stock, newish shocks i thought it was great on and off the road, but getting a rougher ride seems weird.. you'd think it would get bouncier..

whats your tire pressure??

when i swapped to 3.5 bypass shocks out back, i needed to put a bolt thru the electromagnet or it would throw a code as soon as the truck would move, because its not seeing the resistance in the magentic coil.. (I have FRS LiveValve fronts that i wanted to keep the system active)

seems like whenever i take my truck offroad it always seems to ride a lot better like the next day on the highway home from the dunes, and i wonder if the shim stack or the needles get clogged up or stuck and once the oil is warmed up and flowing good everything starts working again as it should...

Tire pressures are 36 front 31 rear. I have found that as long as I rotate every 8k miles or so, those pressures seem to keep the tires wearing pretty evenly. Went through my first set of tires in 16k miles... I like your style though, beat on it till it improves!

They are solenoids. Solenoids are an electromagnetically controlled valve.

And they don't control a needle, the live valve is a pretty complex hydraulic flow control valve. If all the solenoid did was control a needle, it wouldn't be able to be PWM'ed, it would be open or closed.

I believe Ford also calls them solenoids on their parts website.
 

downforce137

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They are solenoids. Solenoids are an electromagnetically controlled valve.

And they don't control a needle, the live valve is a pretty complex hydraulic flow control valve. If all the solenoid did was control a needle, it wouldn't be able to be PWM'ed, it would be open or closed.

i guess the complete assembly could/can be called a solonoid..

the coil is a magnet, and the part that screws into the shock is a needle valve, that yes controls the flow of oil into the shock reservoir internal piston area..

but basically, its a needle valve array for controlling oil flow, outside of the piston/shim stack mounted to the main shock shaft..

all its really doing is turning the manual knob that is on the older shocks, until you talk about gen3 that is adjusting the knobs constantly..


maybe something in the live valve is failing and making them full stiff after time... thatd be pretty lame.

if the needle isnt pulled back, they are full stiff..

so id bet its possible that the needle is getting stuck in its seat and the magnet cant pull it back...
 
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