Gen 2 to Gen 1.

[rtmozingo]

true, which is why I went to a Gen 1. After 2 trucks with multiple timing chain/ cam phaser failures I'm over it. I can easily buy a Super Duty with a 6.2L and use it as a donor engine when the time comes.

I've read from others on here that Ford has released a TSB on the ca phaser issue, however the part number hasn't changed. this tells us Ford hasn't made any changes to fix the issue, nor do they care to.

So you work for a dealership.. that explains a lot.

No, I work as a Nuclear Engineer at Comanche Peak Nuclear Power Plant. The Fire Protection Manager, two engineers (myself included), two shop guys, a lady in procurement, and the site VP all drive Raptors.

As for the parts, there has been at least 1 part revision, but from my understanding there has actually been 2. Both have seen repeat failures, again highlighting the issue is elsewhere in the engine.

I'm sorry you've had bad luck. Seen a few people who had the problem follow them between trucks which is as unfortunate as it is strange. If Ford didn't care they'd not bother revising the part.

My truck and my buddy's (fire protection manager).

 

[Badgertits]

99% of statistics are made up on the spot.

How about 99% of 6.2L engines will go 500K+ in fleet driven Superduties? Sounds like a good stat.

Sure, the TT V6 has been "OK" in the first 3 years and less than 50K miles, kinda. Give it 10 years. NFW the TTV6 go 250K+ miles on a regular basis with nothing but oil and spark plugs changes like the 6.2L engines do- all the time.

Bottom line is this, the guys who are the most ardent V6 supporters will be driving something else by the time their V6 starts to fall apart, and that's why they scoff at those who know what a POS it will be long-term. All they care about is how it moves the truck. Longevity and reliability do not matter.

I’d say an AL body & beefier frame on the Gen 2s adds to “longevity” wouldn’t you? Could also argue a Gen 1 will be a rusted out husk by the time a Gen 2 needs new turbos lol.

So many times I’ve reminded people on this forum if this fact but seems to be a lot of denial/fanboyism - but here it goes- Ford doesn’t care about V8s. They barely have any V8 offerings, if you look at the most likely candidates for V8 use they’re either eliminating entirely or in the process of doing so- any mid or full size SUVs, luxury cars (do they even make one lol?), luxury SUVs, 1/2 ton pickups etc. all heavy in the eco boost platforms or Moving in that direction.

Ford cares about investing in EV development, hybrid drivetrains, smaller displacement turbo EB engines, etc. NOT V8. They haven’t been the “front runner” V8 manufacturers for a loonnnngggg ass time.

If I wanted a V8 that bad in my Raptor I’ll keep it long term (again- with the AL body - good to go) & drop a Chevy crate motor in it lol

 

[rkwjunior]

My 2010 gen 1 rocker panels went garbage a year ago. Got a quote to fix one side for $3k
I live in the northeast so this is usually what kills all my vehicles.
I'm relieved my gen 2 is aluminum bodied. All I have to worry about it the frame and components.

I am a little more worried about my first year 17 and the EB and all the electronics.
The v8 gave me a worm fuzzy feeling and gave me no crazy issues.
Frozen caliper, sway bar link. 02 sensors, tpms, heated seat element.
But I love the 17, massive upgrade.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I’d say an AL body & beefier frame on the Gen 2s adds to “longevity” wouldn’t you? Could also argue a Gen 1 will be a rusted out husk by the time a Gen 2 needs new turbos lol.

So many times I’ve reminded people on this forum if this fact but seems to be a lot of denial/fanboyism - but here it goes- Ford doesn’t care about V8s. They barely have any V8 offerings, if you look at the most likely candidates for V8 use they’re either eliminating entirely or in the process of doing so- any mid or full size SUVs, luxury cars (do they even make one lol?), luxury SUVs, 1/2 ton pickups etc. all heavy in the eco boost platforms or Moving in that direction.

Ford cares about investing in EV development, hybrid drivetrains, smaller displacement turbo EB engines, etc. NOT V8. They haven’t been the “front runner” V8 manufacturers for a loonnnngggg ass time.

If I wanted a V8 that bad in my Raptor I’ll keep it long term (again- with the AL body - good to go) & drop a Chevy crate motor in it lol

Lol I was going to reply to your first post on this thread, but I didn’t. I have read multiple people noting that they have the Gen 2 because of its frame being better than a Gen 1. That’s a nice talking point. What are you all a politician? I know guys that have beat the living daylights out of their Gen 1 for 5-9 years: multiple trips to Baja, TRR events, I personally have been to the Artic Circle twice, all with no issues. All the hype that started around the Gen 1s having a weak frame was mostly due to people not outfitting/using their truck properly when off-roading. Yes, I am sure the Gen 2 frame is slightly stronger from a engineering standpoint than the Gen 1. But anybody who sits here and wants to act like the Gen 1 frame is garbage and would not suffice for their application is full of it. So please stop ranting about the frame because it is a nonissue—just a talking point.

Your aluminum argument is a good point. I can’t disagree with you on that.

Ford just released the 7.3 V8 Ford for their SuperDuty applications where they are industry leaders in TQ and HP. So clearly Ford does care about V8s. Granted, it falls behind their V6s, electric technology, and so forth. The point here is that it is disingenuous to say they don’t care and are not investing in V8 technology.

Look it is fine if you like the V6 better than a V8. Just don’t make crazy assertions that aren’t true. The Gen 1 isn’t garbage and neither is the Gen 2.

 

[Todd Turbo S]

Lol I was going to reply to your first post on this thread, but I didn’t. I have read multiple people noting that they have the Gen 2 because of its frame being better than a Gen 1. That’s a nice talking point. What are you all a politician? I know guys that have beat the living daylights out of their Gen 1 for 5-9 years: multiple trips to Baja, TRR events, I personally have been to the Artic Circle twice, all with no issues. All the hype that started around the Gen 1s having a weak frame was mostly due to people not outfitting/using their truck properly when off-roading. Yes, I am sure the Gen 2 frame is slightly stronger from a engineering standpoint than the Gen 1. But anybody who sits here and wants to act like the Gen 1 frame is garbage and would not suffice for their application is full of it. So please stop ranting about the frame because it is a nonissue—just a talking point.

Your aluminum argument is a good point. I can’t disagree with you on that.

Ford just released the 7.3 V8 Ford for their SuperDuty applications where they are industry leaders in TQ and HP. So clearly Ford does care about V8s. Granted, it falls behind their V6s, electric technology, and so forth. The point here is that it is disingenuous to say they don’t care and are not investing in V8 technology.

Look it is fine if you like the V6 better than a V8. Just don’t make crazy assertions that aren’t true. The Gen 1 isn’t garbage and neither is the Gen 2.

Well said

 

[zombiekiller]

Lol I was going to reply to your first post on this thread, but I didn’t. I have read multiple people noting that they have the Gen 2 because of its frame being better than a Gen 1. That’s a nice talking point. What are you all a politician? I know guys that have beat the living daylights out of their Gen 1 for 5-9 years: multiple trips to Baja, TRR events, I personally have been to the Artic Circle twice, all with no issues. All the hype that started around the Gen 1s having a weak frame was mostly due to people not outfitting/using their truck properly when off-roading. Yes, I am sure the Gen 2 frame is slightly stronger from a engineering standpoint than the Gen 1. But anybody who sits here and wants to act like the Gen 1 frame is garbage and would not suffice for their application is full of it. So please stop ranting about the frame because it is a nonissue—just a talking point.

Your aluminum argument is a good point. I can’t disagree with you on that.

Ford just released the 7.3 V8 Ford for their SuperDuty applications where they are industry leaders in TQ and HP. So clearly Ford does care about V8s. Granted, it falls behind their V6s, electric technology, and so forth. The point here is that it is disingenuous to say they don’t care and are not investing in V8 technology.

Look it is fine if you like the V6 better than a V8. Just don’t make crazy assertions that aren’t true. The Gen 1 isn’t garbage and neither is the Gen 2.

there is a LOT more to the frame difference than just "stronger".

The geometry is all different. A sprung over gen2 with still cycle about an inch more than a sprung under gen1, without all the problems that come with sprung under.

The mounting points for the front suspension are all different, allowing for more travel. There is no need to modify the firewall on the gen2s for long travel and big tires.

YES, you can absolutely hack off all of the mounting points and put them where you want them on a gen1.

You will also have a real hard time convincing me that the gen1 cab is anywhere near as strong as the gen2.

I personally am not a fan of the ecoboost, but I will say that the "personality" of the motor changes drastically when you manual shift it. A lot of the quirkiness and usability issues are actually the stupid 10 spd trans.

I like my truck, when the ecoboost pops, it'll get LS/LT swapped, but it is gonna be an expensive swap, as unless someone comes up with something magical, It'll also entail a transmission and tcase swap, and most like a full rewire of the truck, unless you want to pay $15K for a signal translation computer to make it all work.

 

[Badgertits]

there is a LOT more to the frame difference than just "stronger".

The geometry is all different. A sprung over gen2 with still cycle about an inch more than a sprung under gen1, without all the problems that come with sprung under.

The mounting points for the front suspension are all different, allowing for more travel. There is no need to modify the firewall on the gen2s for long travel and big tires.

YES, you can absolutely hack off all of the mounting points and put them where you want them on a gen1.

You will also have a real hard time convincing me that the gen1 cab is anywhere near as strong as the gen2.

I personally am not a fan of the ecoboost, but I will say that the "personality" of the motor changes drastically when you manual shift it. A lot of the quirkiness and usability issues are actually the stupid 10 spd trans.

I like my truck, when the ecoboost pops, it'll get LS/LT swapped, but it is gonna be an expensive swap, as unless someone comes up with something magical, It'll also entail a transmission and tcase swap, and most like a full rewire of the truck, unless you want to pay $15K for a signal translation computer to make it all work.

Lol so ******** true hahaha

The irony of this is- I owned multiple GM trucks- 5.3, 6.0, 6.2- I would snicker @ the heavier, slower, less tunable Gen 1 6.2 Raptor thinking to myself “I’d still prefer my 6.2 GMC & if I want the Gen 1 Raptor looks/ride the shocks/fender flares/tires can be bought. Then the Gen 2 came out, Ford’s EB motors continue to age well & provide huge gains w/ tune only- I wasn’t convinced to “jump ship” & try a Ford truck over a GM/Toyota UNTIL the Gen 2 Raptor w/ the HO 3.5 came out, & people want to go back in the other direction? Complete fanboyism Hahahaha GM’s old ass LS3 is wayyyy better than that 6.2 - so as I always say, again, why look back so fondly on that thing? If ford thought they were such crackerjack V8 producers riddle me this- why don’t they put one in a full size luxury car, an expedition or an aviator or a GT or a navigator? Maybe cuz they know when they’re beat? Maybe cuz they’re have ALOT more confidence in their EB platforms?

I mean no other way to explain it.

 

[cgibs89]

Lol so ******** true hahaha

The irony of this is- I owned multiple GM trucks- 5.3, 6.0, 6.2- I would snicker @ the heavier, slower, less tunable Gen 1 6.2 Raptor thinking to myself “I’d still prefer my 6.2 GMC & if I want the Gen 1 Raptor looks/ride the shocks/fender flares/tires can be bought. Then the Gen 2 came out, Ford’s EB motors continue to age well & provide huge gains w/ tune only- I wasn’t convinced to “jump ship” & try a Ford truck over a GM/Toyota UNTIL the Gen 2 Raptor w/ the HO 3.5 came out, & people want to go back in the other direction? Complete fanboyism Hahahaha GM’s old ass LS3 is wayyyy better than that 6.2 - so as I always say, again, why look back so fondly on that thing? If ford thought they were such crackerjack V8 producers riddle me this- why don’t they put one in a full size luxury car, an expedition or an aviator or a GT or a navigator? Maybe cuz they know when they’re beat? Maybe cuz they’re have ALOT more confidence in their EB platforms?

I mean no other way to explain it.

Then why would you or zombie put in an LS (mind you, the LS hasn't been in production since 2013)? I thought the Ecoboost was god's gift to Raptors? Why not replace it with another Ecoboost? Why replace it with something "in the other direction?"

Thanks for playing yourself.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

there is a LOT more to the frame difference than just "stronger".

The geometry is all different. A sprung over gen2 with still cycle about an inch more than a sprung under gen1, without all the problems that come with sprung under.

The mounting points for the front suspension are all different, allowing for more travel. There is no need to modify the firewall on the gen2s for long travel and big tires.

YES, you can absolutely hack off all of the mounting points and put them where you want them on a gen1.

You will also have a real hard time convincing me that the gen1 cab is anywhere near as strong as the gen2.

I personally am not a fan of the ecoboost, but I will say that the "personality" of the motor changes drastically when you manual shift it. A lot of the quirkiness and usability issues are actually the stupid 10 spd trans.

I like my truck, when the ecoboost pops, it'll get LS/LT swapped, but it is gonna be an expensive swap, as unless someone comes up with something magical, It'll also entail a transmission and tcase swap, and most like a full rewire of the truck, unless you want to pay $15K for a signal translation computer to make it all work.

Yes, I know there is more to the design of the frame then it being just “stronger.” My point was simple: if the Gen 1 frames are weak and garbage then we would have evidence of Gen 1 owners messing up their frames after all these years and we don’t have such evidence. Now that doesn’t mean that Ford didn’t and/or couldn’t approve upon the design of the Gen 1 frame because they did. But this is all a moot point because no one is having an issue with their frames.

You make a good point about the cabs.

I am interested in just buying a 2020 Gen 2 because at some point you have to draw a line on mods. I could drop another $20k or so into my Gen 1, but at that point, it is equivalent to throwing the money off of the side of a bridge. Lol I love Raptors, but I am not tying up super car money into one like you because I want to own a super car and a Raptor!

And it is not right for you to respond to my post on this thread, but not respond to my private message from the other day

 

[SVTTrooper]

No, I work as a Nuclear Engineer at Comanche Peak Nuclear Power Plant. The Fire Protection Manager, two engineers (myself included), two shop guys, a lady in procurement, and the site VP all drive Raptors.

As for the parts, there has been at least 1 part revision, but from my understanding there has actually been 2. Both have seen repeat failures, again highlighting the issue is elsewhere in the engine.

I'm sorry you've had bad luck. Seen a few people who had the problem follow them between trucks which is as unfortunate as it is strange. If Ford didn't care they'd not bother revising the part.

My truck and my buddy's (fire protection manager).

ah my bad.. there's a fair number of sales guys on here and that definitely made me think you did too lol.

Thanks man, definitely sucked when my Gen 2 started acting up! I love the Gen 2, but I'm honest about what happened and why I went to my Gen 1. when I seen Matt Ferrah drive the SDHQ EcoRaptor I was sold.. but this issue costs about 4k a pop, I can't justify that once the truck is off of warranty especially when my 2 trucks had 5 sets replaced between them lol. If Ford were to be honest about it for those who are affected and not leave us stranded once were off of warranty I'd go back but that wont happen.

As for parts numbers there could be a revision, but last page I visited on here one member posted the part and guys had said that it was the same from a few years ago.. I wish I could verify it myself but I threw out all of that paperwork and I would have to ask the dealer for it.