Gen 2 OE rear shocks on gen 1

[Jimster58]

The full extension is being limited by your cv's binding. Take it off road and you will see that the uca crashes into the spring and the cv's will get killed by the binding
I would 100% run limiting straps
Sorry to be the party crasher, i want them to work as much as the next guy, but the fact is they are too long.
How much too long?? Nobody will post the measurements! Come on can someone bust out a tape measure


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Perhaps a naive question, but will the installation of aftermarket UCAs mitigate both the CV-binding issue and the spring impact issue? Will a limiting strap still be required?

 

[ogdobber]

Perhaps a naive question, but will the installation of aftermarket UCAs mitigate both the CV-binding issue and the spring impact issue? Will a limiting strap still be required?

Aftermarket UCAs won't solve any problems unless they are longer (that creates a whole new set of problems) because the shock travel down will still be the same amount. So if there weren't any limiting factors upper and lower would eventually fold down to flat. So you can see at a certain point you run out of room.
With a 1.5 spacer the overall length is too long for the stock cv's. That additional length binds the cv and they get killed very quickly. With the gen2 shocks even longer than that the cv's wont be long for this world.
There are aftermarket cv's that work in extreme angles (i think rcv?) But they are 3k+
So If you install the gen2 shocks you 100% need limiting straps. In 2wd you could drive forever, in 4wd 10 minutes or less the cv's are done



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[Jimster58]

Aftermarket UCAs won't solve any problems unless they are longer (that creates a whole new set of problems) because the shock travel down will still be the same amount. So if there weren't any limiting factors upper and lower would eventually fold down to flat. So you can see at a certain point you run out of room.
With a 1.5 spacer the overall length is too long for the stock cv's. That additional length binds the cv and they get killed very quickly. With the gen2 shocks even longer than that the cv's wont be long for this world.
There are aftermarket cv's that work in extreme angles (i think rcv?) But they are 3k+
So If you install the gen2 shocks you 100% need limiting straps. In 2wd you could drive forever, in 4wd 10 minutes or less the cv's are done



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So, if I'm understanding the mechanics of this and your explanation correctly, the added range of travel allowed by the longer Gen2 shock causes two issues. At some point in the downward travel, there is physical contact between the inside of the UCA and the coil spring. The other being, that at some point, the angle imposed on the CV joints is too extreme and exceeds their maximum design angle so they fail.

A more open interior space design on an aftermarket UCA may relieve the impact issue with the spring, but there are definitive limits to that, and lengthening creates more issues due to how the UCA and LCA components function together. The CV issue remains and is actually now worsened by additional UCA travel because the spring is no longer acting as a suspension "stop".

By installing a limiting strap and truncating the travel to Gen1 OEM limits, both issues are completely mitigated, due to the fact that the suspension travel is stopped before either scenario is experienced. That, or never driving the truck so that extreme-travel is achieved.

Thanks for the information and clarification - it really makes good sense now.


Anyone have experience/recommendations for limiting straps?

 

[AndysLog]

thanks for the guy that stuffed the front shock up and see if it fits.


what i would need to see and i think everyone that understands suspension components would also like to see the shock mounted without the coil and see the full suspension cycle with the shock by itself.

 

[ogdobber]

So, if I'm understanding the mechanics of this and your explanation correctly, the added range of travel allowed by the longer Gen2 shock causes two issues. At some point in the downward travel, there is physical contact between the inside of the UCA and the coil spring. The other being, that at some point, the angle imposed on the CV joints is too extreme and exceeds their maximum design angle so they fail.

A more open interior space design on an aftermarket UCA may relieve the impact issue with the spring, but there are definitive limits to that, and lengthening creates more issues due to how the UCA and LCA components function together. The CV issue remains and is actually now worsened by additional UCA travel because the spring is no longer acting as a suspension "stop".

By installing a limiting strap and truncating the travel to Gen1 OEM limits, both issues are completely mitigated, due to the fact that the suspension travel is stopped before either scenario is experienced. That, or never driving the truck so that extreme-travel is achieved.

Thanks for the information and clarification - it really makes good sense now.


Anyone have experience/recommendations for limiting straps?

yes exactly. i need to take off a wheel and see what the best way to mount. orw (off road warehouse) has a huge selection of limiting straps...just need to figure out what (design and mounting) is best.
note; whatever the overall length needed you need to account for a half inch of stretch in the strap
in reality, whatever the stock gen1 down length is, that 1/2 stretch over that would be ok i think

thanks for the guy that stuffed the front shock up and see if it fits.


what i would need to see and i think everyone that understands suspension components would also like to see the shock mounted without the coil and see the full suspension cycle with the shock by itself.

Yes i agree. Curious to see if it bottoms out prematurely and thus losing overall travel.

 

[bamared]

This is all good points, and glad a few are interested.

Im interested to see a few points also,
1. lift truck and let it hang to the point where the uca is touching the coil, and take a measurement of the shock shaft.
2. Measure the same area on a shock not installed. This would also give you a full extended length.

Really, any reference point installed, to not installed would tell you how much you would need to limit it. This could also possibly be done inside the shock with the shim stack if i understand correctly. But losing compression distance is not good.


I feel that it only makes sense to say this: the travel would be the same on the Gen1 and Gen2 as the control arm and spring are factory Gen1 parts, to the point just before it hits the coil spring. If you limited the travel to just this, problem solved completely.



***** ebay add- seen a Gen2 set today for 899.99 for a set of 4. hell of a deal even if someone just uses the rear.

 

[jpwrx2002]

After about a week of around the town use, I am still happy with the ride quality. No issues. I also found a guy on Instagram that is running the GEN 2 struts on a Gen 1. He looks to have a good bit of road miles on them, waiting to hear back from him.

 

[hogwash]

After about a week of around the town use, I am still happy with the ride quality. No issues. I also found a guy on Instagram that is running the GEN 2 struts on a Gen 1. He looks to have a good bit of road miles on them, waiting to hear back from him.

I think I've seen the same guy on IG. Imma just do it and install when the weather gets warmer. Thanks to all the guys who bit the bullet and decided to be guinea pigs.

 

[jpwrx2002]

I think I've seen the same guy on IG. Imma just do it and install when the weather gets warmer. Thanks to all the guys who bit the bullet and decided to be guinea pigs.

Still waiting on him to hit me back up, I'm dying to get some off road miles on mine.

 

[bamared]

does he have front and rear on, or just rear?

**** also interested to know with the front, at what point does the spring hit the upper control arm, and how much travel is left before it stops after hitting? if its just minimal i wont worry about a limiter strap but its its smashing into the spring, thats a different story.

---------- Post added at 07:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:25 AM ----------

After about a week of around the town use, I am still happy with the ride quality. No issues. I also found a guy on Instagram that is running the GEN 2 struts on a Gen 1. He looks to have a good bit of road miles on them, waiting to hear back from him.

got any pictures of full droop of upper control arm to spring contact?