Gen. 1 owners please reply !

[Snowsled]

I am with you on this one! I would LOVE a solution to the runaway Raptor syndrome. I am going to buy my wife a Jeep with a 6 speed just in case

I may get some video of the problem this weekend. Pretty sure we will do a little trail riding/snow check this weekend. Maybe that will help folks understand what is happening.

To the poster that used engine braking in high range... I tried the same and found it is much better in high than in low. For a truck with 4.10 gears, it rolls pretty fast down the mtn in low range.

I would buy a tune, or a pedal commander if it would fix this.

I also read up on the various modes and intend to try off road, ESC disable and everything off to see if any of the different settings help.

 

[gwpfan]

I was the one that tried Hi and no Lo.
Strange I would've expected Hi to go faster than Lo downhill.

As to buying her a jeep, the problem is no where as bad in the new Raptor as the old, comparing 4 Hi in both.

 

[Snowsled]

I was the one that tried Hi and no Lo.
Strange I would've expected Hi to go faster than Lo downhill.

As to buying her a jeep, the problem is no where as bad in the new Raptor as the old, comparing 4 Hi in both.

She is getting a Jeep anyway. I have zero interest in Raptors made after 2014.

 

[gwpfan]

FWIW - I tried this again yesterday numerous times in 4 Lo on the '14. It was so slow in parts it was annoying. Upshifted to 2nd and 3rd in some of those.
Even on the steepest parts the fastest I ended up in 1st gear 4 Lo was about 10 mph and just over 4K RPM. Never experienced the 'surging' like explained here, but I did experience it in 4 hi.
Granted 10 mph is too fast in some situations, but brake assist there, with 'engine braking' being primary.

This left me wondering a few things - guys that are experiencing it, what engine and what year? I know the OP is a 2010, so is that the 5.4 L? I thought the was 2011 and later years.
Next is the others experiencing it with newer trucks (6.2L):
1. Are you sure you are actually getting in 4 Lo? Not sure if it gives an error if it can't shift into 4 Lo or it just defaults to 4 Hi.
2. Are your front wheels actually locking?
Just trying to come up with other possibilities.

 

[Snowsled]

Just FYI, if you can run the trails I run at 10 mph, I want to be there to watch! That isn't just a little fast, that is WAY TOO FAST. I have never had a 4wd vehicle that ran so fast in low.

The cruise control effect took place on a flatter section.

The brakes? Well, that is a sketchy situation as well. When the hill descent shut off my pedal was already soft. Riding the brakes for hours in a 3 ton rig isn't a solution, it is a bad idea.

It is the drive by wire throttle and its controller causing the issue. If the throttle plate was really closed when you took your foot off the pedal, this would not be an issue.

 

[gwpfan]

Just FYI, if you can run the trails I run at 10 mph, I want to be there to watch! That isn't just a little fast, that is WAY TOO FAST. I have never had a 4wd vehicle that ran so fast in low..

Agree that can be way too fast, but again its about the situation and the terrain, as previously stated. It was a pretty long steep straight stretch and I just let it go to see what would happen. Also don't kill the messenger, I went and ran some specific hills just to retest this in 4 Lo.

You're seriously on terrain that you need to ride the brakes for hours straight? Even if it was hours downhill most trails generally have switch backs, flat logging landings, bumps, kelly humps, sidehills one could use to help slow down.
IME - that seems extreme and I believe you found a weak point in the Raptor, however those other vehicles you say you've never had go that fast in 4 Lo, can they go 100+ mph?
Interested in knowing if it is the throttle plate and drive by wire, but find it also interesting if that's all it was why are the tuner's so far not willing to touch this?

 

[Snowsled]

Agree that can be way too fast, but again its about the situation and the terrain, as previously stated. It was a pretty long steep straight stretch and I just let it go to see what would happen. Also don't kill the messenger, I went and ran some specific hills just to retest this in 4 Lo.

We shouldn't get too frustrated as this was never meant to be a rock crawler. This is a go fast desert truck. I have some of that terrain around too for after my shock rebuild 3000 rpm is way to fats, 4000 rpm is haulin on a narrow jeep road with rocks and cliffs.

You're seriously on terrain that you need to ride the brakes for hours straight? Even if it was hours downhill most trails generally have switch backs, flat logging landings, bumps, kelly humps, sidehills one could use to help slow down.

We spend all day on trail, some of the downhills take a couple of hours easy. Sure you can stop and manage speed but my experience and that of the OP is that it takes lots of brakes to stay safe, too much IMO.

IME - that seems extreme and I believe you found a weak point in the Raptor, however those other vehicles you say you've never had go that fast in 4 Lo, can they go 100+ mph?
Interested in knowing if it is the throttle plate and drive by wire, but find it also interesting if that's all it was why are the tuner's so far not willing to touch this?

My Cayenne turbo was good for 170 mph and was MUCH better than the Raptor at jeep trails. My Power Wagon was good for the same 100 mph as the Raptor but was a better crawler. It too had some bizarre throttle programming and the worst transmission programming I have ever experienced. The hill descent on the Ram was terrible, unusable. The Raptors is super effective and easy to use but overheats way too quickly.

I may try a pedal commander. I suspect this or about any tune probably cures it. I see most tuners address the electronic throttle issues. Off Road mode should fix it too though...

 

[gwpfan]

Thanks - of course though the Cayenne turbo I would think is at least a ton lighter, so then you have that added mass catching speed.

I'd like to see a better solution as well, but it doesn't seem as drastic in my tests.

 

[Snowsled]

Thanks - of course though the Cayenne turbo I would think is at least a ton lighter, so then you have that added mass catching speed.

I'd like to see a better solution as well, but it doesn't seem as drastic in my tests.

My 2008 Cayenne was a 5600 lb truck, just a few hundred lbs lighter than my Scab Raptor. The 2011+ models do not have a low range gearbox and are probably half a ton lighter than a Raptor.

 

[WHAMMYBAR66]

FWIW - I tried this again yesterday numerous times in 4 Lo on the '14. It was so slow in parts it was annoying. Upshifted to 2nd and 3rd in some of those.
Even on the steepest parts the fastest I ended up in 1st gear 4 Lo was about 10 mph and just over 4K RPM. Never experienced the 'surging' like explained here, but I did experience it in 4 hi.
Granted 10 mph is too fast in some situations, but brake assist there, with 'engine braking' being primary.

This left me wondering a few things - guys that are experiencing it, what engine and what year? I know the OP is a 2010, so is that the 5.4 L? I thought the was 2011 and later years.
Next is the others experiencing it with newer trucks (6.2L):
1. Are you sure you are actually getting in 4 Lo? Not sure if it gives an error if it can't shift into 4 Lo or it just defaults to 4 Hi.
2. Are your front wheels actually locking?
Just trying to come up with other possibilities.

My 2010 RAptor that this started this post is a 6.2L.

There is no question it is in low side.

Understand these mountain trails are very steep, even the switchback parts, for long periods of time.

---------- Post added at 04:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:21 PM ----------

We shouldn't get too frustrated as this was never meant to be a rock crawler. This is a go fast desert truck. I have some of that terrain around too for after my shock rebuild 3000 rpm is way to fats, 4000 rpm is haulin on a narrow jeep road with rocks and cliffs.



We spend all day on trail, some of the downhills take a couple of hours easy. Sure you can stop and manage speed but my experience and that of the OP is that it takes lots of brakes to stay safe, too much IMO.



My Cayenne turbo was good for 170 mph and was MUCH better than the Raptor at jeep trails. My Power Wagon was good for the same 100 mph as the Raptor but was a better crawler. It too had some bizarre throttle programming and the worst transmission programming I have ever experienced. The hill descent on the Ram was terrible, unusable. The Raptors is super effective and easy to use but overheats way too quickly.

I may try a pedal commander. I suspect this or about any tune probably cures it. I see most tuners address the electronic throttle issues. Off Road mode should fix it too though...

You are right Snowsled ! I agree that since this truck was designed to fly across sand dunes we shouldn't freak too much ! In fact, I kinda think that is why Ford missed this programming issue..

I hope one of us can find a solution... but again.. around my home turf I would never know there was an issue.

The disappointing thing though, is that this is hands down the most capable truck I have ever owned. . . and I have owned some pretty cool rigs.. but it has this little hole in its armor with the down hill problem.

The fact that this truck drove like a luxury car across Kansas and Colorado (on 37's !!), yet handled everything the mountains threw at it is a testament to its design. I was so frickin stoked when we arrived at the mountains and the wife said "I can't believe how comfortable your truck was driving out here".

In the end it is still a great truck... I just really want to hit the mountains again with it. I don't want to rent a jeep to stay safe. I take great satisfaction in taking my own vehicle on the trails. I am a dork that likes the trail stickers on the back glass and consider them a badge of honor !! LOL