Full Race's "Gen 2.5" Raptor build

[full-race geoff]

We took the two big turbo trucks out and had some fun

killed the tires on the grey truck (Not sure what rubber to try next)

Meanwhile my team and I are finalizing some Gen3 and bronco / ranger projects, trying to wrap before the end of year. I’m grabbing a few hours here and there for my project.



A potential win for my Gen 3/2/1 setup is I test fitted the Gen2 AC compressor and it fits the Gen 3 block and Harmonic balancer (as well as a Gen 1 block). they all share the same bolt pattern and appear to be cross compatible. The dowels looks slightly different only. If Gen 2 ac compressor/lines does in fact fit up to a Gen 3 3.5L longblock … the remaining wildcard is knock sensor. Although that’s a big one that I may not be able to answer without hands on testing with an expert calibrator. Still
More to figure out.



a couple weeks ago I test fitted the gen2 4.88 front diff and steering rack in my gen 3 Frankenframe and it all fit perfectly. Lots of room for diff cover activities. <Spicer Dana 8.8 diff covers are on long backorder until April or May fyi>. Not sure if I’m going to weld the diff case mounts right now although I made some cardboard templates at lunch yesterday. Have so much other things to focus on currently it’s the least of my worries.



I decided to try and get my Gen 2 hubs and knuckles to fit the Gen 3 frame. This would keep the hubs/bearings/lca/knuckle changes to a minimum and get me rolling quickly however it also might be a fail I don’t know yet. FYI a Gen 3 knuckle is 0.700” taller than a Gen 2 knuckle. So I’m going to make a taller steering knuckle misalignment using Camburg UCAs and machining taller misalignment spacers.



For fun I tried 3D scanning with my iPhone. Did not work out well so back to cad, drew it up 0.700 taller and also made another variant at 0.750 and 3D printed a pair before running on the lathe. After the holiday I will cycle the susp to check bumpsteer then decide if I’m wasting time here. I don’t really want long travel and definitely don’t want dual shocks up front - They block critical access to engine and turbo



For the record: Some people online say the ball joint taper is 7 degrees - it’s actually 6.4 degrees



In other news, PRI was last week and the three raptor related updates:

Nostrum DI fuel pump debut in their PRI booth: https://www.full-race.com/nostrum-2017-2020-f150-ecoboost-hpfp DI makes more power on gasoline. I ordered one for my truck, will test it on the stock motor first


Engine builder magazine had the SI valves on display (although I’m unsure why they call them gen3 and not gen2/3): https://www.enginelabs.com/news/si-valves-and-headgames-motorworks-team-up-on-gen-3-ecoboost-valves/

GSC is releasing an all new valve spring kit. The owner Greg has a gen 2 raptor and says cams are next.

 

[full-race geoff]

Better photo of diff cover clearance:

 

[full-race geoff]

Putting here for the record; chart comparing the 3 different types of Ecoboost valves - SI, headgames, Ford


SI dominates:

 

[RaceUV]

Thanks Geoff for the awesome thread! I recently pulled the trigger on the ATI balancer mentioned earlier in the thread and figured I would try to add some value here. Attached are a few photos; one of the finished install and I also attached the part numbers for the belts that are required to run it. The ATI balancer is 4% overdriven from stock so I had to play with a few different belt sizes. I also discovered that if your Gen 2 3.5 has 112,000 miles like mine, the overdriven pulley makes the old accessories less than happy. I ended up replacing the water pump, decoupler pulley, idler pulley and tensioner with new Motorcraft parts. Also, another side note; on the Gen 2 stuff the crank isn’t keyed but the ATI balancer is. I was instructed by ATI to just throw a small dab of RTV in the empty keyway to prevent an oil leak. I hope this helps some of you guys looking to do the swap!

Also for Geoff,

After install I noticed a more pronounced hollow sounding knock coming from the engine at low RPM. Only happens in drive and only on very low speed light throttle. Part of me wants to says it is direct injection noise. With your experience with this balancer, did you notice anything like this? Also, any idea if ARP makes a crank bolt that will fit this engine? Is it the same size as the coyote bolt?

Thanks guys!

 

[full-race geoff]

Hi, @RaceUV thanks for posting up. I do not know what knock sound this may be, it’s a good idea to inspect if it’s new.

Just to make sure I’m following you, are you saying that after installing the ATI pulley with oem 3.5L crank bolt on a stock engine that the accessory components started to fail? How did you fasten the bolt and did you heat up the crank pulley before installing on the engine? Is the pulley staying put or wiggling off? I am not an expert engine builder or crank pulley designer so take all this with a grain of salt:


First - i believe ATI specs the Mustang / coyote crank bolt here, iirc the 3.5L bolt is not long enough. You will want to double check - I called RBM for you just now and he confirmed

Second, overdriven water pump is definitely a good thing!

Third, hopefully you did not use the impact driver tightening the crank bolt. Reason: the timing chain drive gear on these engines is powder metal and can get damaged from too much uggadugga

Lastly- yes the RTV in the keyway is a little wonky and at the same time it’s also awesome. It allows you to key your crankshaft if building a proper race motor so nothing can spin unintended

 

[Zeusmotorworks]

Still waiting to see what other dampener options are coming down the road.

 

[RaceUV]

@full-race geoff

Thanks for the reply man. Let me clarify a few things...

1. I installed the ATI balancer with factory crank bolt initially with the original high mileage water pump and decoupler pulley. The extra speed caused by the ATI just made it obvious that they were already bad before the ATI install. There was tons of bearing play in the water pump and the bearing was shot on the decoupler pulley, I just had no idea until they started making more noise with the ATI. The new balancer didn't cause them to fail. Also, thank you for making that phone call on the crank bolt! much appreciated!

2. I did not heat up the hub on the ATI before install. I definitely should have. The ATI balancer is fully seated and flush. No issues there at all, everything looks great. Also, I did not use an impact to tighten the crank bolt I followed factory torque procedures by hand.

3. Yes, I was super happy to see that the ATI balancer was keyed. Hopefully when I start throwing a new motor together with the gen 3-2-1 combo you are lining out I can have the factory crank keyed!

4. Yes, I am super pumped (pun intended) about the overdriven water pump! That, combine with some Redline antifreeze and an SPD 170 degree thermostat and this thing stays WAY cool. Definitely some worth while mods, no more 220+ degree transmission temps either....

 

[full-race geoff]

Great, thanks for the info. Can you post a photo of the original crank pulley? (specifically the rubber elastomer section?)

after installing a high end balancer with no other changes there should be a discernible reduction in vibrational harshness. Do you noticeably ‘feel’ any change or a difference in smoothness of the engine now?

 

[dillard09]

I had an ATI installed when my cam phasers were done. I only got to drive it 5 days before this happened but it did feel smooth. Not sure if it was all ATI or if it was the combo of the phasers as well. Hopefully in another week or so I'll have my truck back and the ATI will be on a fresh brand new stock motor.

 

[RaceUV]

Great, thanks for the info. Can you post a photo of the original crank pulley? (specifically the rubber elastomer section?)

after installing a high end balancer with no other changes there should be a discernible reduction in vibrational harshness. Do you noticeably ‘feel’ any change or a difference in smoothness of the engine now?

You are in luck! I kept my original one and honestly forgot to take photos of it until now. It definitely looks like the rubber was separating! Super glad that I did the upgrade while I was in there. Also, yes, the engine feels much smoother. I honestly think that is where the extra "noise" is coming from. The engine is much quieter and smoother so now my stupid mechanic brain hears everything else. It is a high milage engine and trans that was neglected before me so I can't expect everything to be perfect.

I had an ATI installed when my cam phasers were done. I only got to drive it 5 days before this happened but it did feel smooth. Not sure if it was all ATI or if it was the combo of the phasers as well. Hopefully in another week or so I'll have my truck back and the ATI will be on a fresh brand new stock motor.

WOW! looks like you had a spicy tune up in that bad boy especially if it was enough to push a head gasket like that on a CSS block. Who did the built short block and who did the tuning if you don't mind me asking? I am eager to tune mine but I am going through fixing all the issues and doing the supporting mods before I pull the trigger on a tune. Big issue as well is it looks like I am going to have to relocate to California for a few years in 2026 so i am trying to be selective about mods and tuning so I can avoid a headache down there.

Geoff if there are any other photos you need let me know.