Full Race's "Gen 2.5" Raptor build

[full-race geoff]

i think the housings are ok going forward, but reversing under a load in 4wd is the issue.. the ramp on the pinion/ring coast side causes deflection in reverse and over stresses the housing.. i dont think theres been many failures in drive/forward, but plenty with backing up trailers up hills and things in 4wd.. quick internet search will prove this. my 19 gen2 had a bunch of stress cracks inside around the ring side carrier bearing and started leaking fluid thru the outside.. i replaced it with a junkyard housing last year..

thats really interesting. Does the ford diff cover claim to increase rigidity of the front diff housing? I read through your thread and had to laugh that people were recommending to JB weld or TIG + JB... Im going to buy a spare housing to take apart and see if I can learn anything

The collar in the IWE doesn't have 100% spline engagement IIRC.

thanks for the heads up. years ago Full Race and RCV were "booth neighbors" at SEMA. ill reach out to them and ask for confirmation the gen3 iwe diameters match

The housing in my friend's 21' exploded spectacularly the first time we went snow wheeling. He was in reverse trying to rock out and it majorly popped.

yikes! i saw a few instances of similar stories on reddit. light traction conditions and grenaded front diff housing

 

[TheClaw]

Thanks for the thread. Here are the gen 3 tension arms installed with new phasers guides chains and chains tensioners

 

[thatJeepguy]

i think the housings are ok going forward, but reversing under a load in 4wd is the issue..

the ramp on the pinion/ring coast side causes deflection in reverse and over stresses the housing..

i dont think theres been many failures in drive/forward, but plenty with backing up trailers up hills and things in 4wd.. quick internet search will prove this.

my 19 gen2 had a bunch of stress cracks inside around the ring side carrier bearing and started leaking fluid thru the outside.. i replaced it with a junkyard housing last year..

stress crack in front diff housing

this developed over the weekend at silver lake sand dunes. must have been dripping on the highway drive home in 2WD of course.. i know a few have had this issue over the years, and im also out of the powertrain warranty, not that id really expect it to be covered.. so weighing options.. 1...

www.fordraptorforum.com

I think That has more to do with inexperienced drivers and IFS than anything else.

 

[full-race geoff]

Thanks for the thread. Here are the gen 3 tension arms installed with new phasers guides chains and chains tensioners

beautiful!!! great to see it - those gen3 guides are SOOO beefy compared to gen2. did you also do the lifters and rollers? thanks for sharing the photo.

 

[downforce137]

I think That has more to do with inexperienced drivers and IFS than anything else.

tell me exactly how inexperience has anything to do with it.. i need a good laugh

 

[thatJeepguy]

tell me exactly how inexperience has anything to do with it.. i need a good laugh

Well lets unpack this. Best way to nuke your driveline is to be stuck not know the limits of a rig and mash the throttle on a 5800lb truck. Then be like “ oh its the diffs fault for being to weak”. I come from a world of solid axles. Full Float 60’s have 3 1/2 inch tubes with 35 spline 1.5 inch shafts. You strengthen tubes all you want but the weak link once you add 37-40” tires will always be the teeth on your ring and pinion gear (unless you have planetary’s) . Now lets move to IFS you trade independent movement, lighter weight and articulation (in theory) at the expense of strength. If the axle shafts are 1” and 28 spline id be shocked (maybe someone can chime in. But you have CV joints ( another failure point) . Recovery is all about finesse and leverage .

I’ll add:

If yr stuck in the snow or anywhere else, instead of mashing the throttle, take the 3 minutes and hook a kinetic rope to yr buddies front recovery points to your rear hitch or recovery points (both factory installed) and have him get a slow roll backwards 2-3 mph. With yr truck in reverse just when you feel yr truck nudge smooth throttle to
Match his speed . 8/10 times you’ll
Climb out without breaking components.

 

[downforce137]

Well lets unpack this. Best way to nuke your driveline is to be stuck not know the limits of a rig and mash the throttle on a 5800lb truck. Then be like “ oh its the diffs fault for being to weak”. I come from a world of solid axles. Full Float 60’s have 3 1/2 inch tubes with 35 spline 1.5 inch shafts. You strengthen tubes all you want but the weak link once you add 37-40” tires will always be the teeth on your ring and pinion gear (unless you have planetary’s) . Now lets move to IFS you trade independent movement, lighter weight and articulation (in theory) at the expense of strength. If the axle shafts are 1” and 28 spline id be shocked (maybe someone can chime in. But you have CV joints ( another failure point) . Recovery is all about finesse and leverage .

I’ll add:

If yr stuck in the snow or anywhere else, instead of mashing the throttle, take the 3 minutes and hook a kinetic rope to yr buddies front recovery points to your rear hitch or recovery points (both factory installed) and have him get a slow roll backwards 2-3 mph. With yr truck in reverse just when you feel yr truck nudge smooth throttle to
Match his speed . 8/10 times you’ll
Climb out without breaking components.

ok.. never one time if i got stuck, have i even bothered to try rocking it back and forth, or hammer the gas to get out in either direction..

I get out a rope and find a friend.. every time... i wasnt even stuck.. i was driving in the sand dunes.. i backed up a slight hill to try to pull a high centered bronco out, and i believe that maybe thats when it could have happened, but it was not a catastrophic failure, so cant be sure really.

ive been off roading my whole life too bud, and if you look at the pictures and logic that i posted, the diff housing isnt controlling the carrier in reverse as the ring gear is being deflected off the pinion and also proved by all the other broken front diff pics of people backing trailers up hill...

the ring gear in drive/forward has a nearly 90 degree engagement with the pinion, but if you look at the coast/reverse side of the ring, its closer to 45 degrees which is a ramp...

 

[thatJeepguy]

ok.. never one time if i got stuck, have i even bothered to try rocking it back and forth, or hammer the gas to get out in either direction..

I get out a rope and find a friend.. every time... i wasnt even stuck.. i was driving in the sand dunes.. i backed up a slight hill to try to pull a high centered bronco out, and i believe that maybe thats when it could have happened, but it was not a catastrophic failure, so cant be sure really.

ive been off roading my whole life too bud, and if you look at the pictures and logic that i posted, the diff housing isnt controlling the carrier in reverse as the ring gear is being deflected off the pinion and also proved by all the other broken front diff pics of people backing trailers up hill...

the ring gear in drive/forward has a nearly 90 degree engagement with the pinion, but if you look at the coast/reverse side of the ring, its closer to 45 degrees which is a ramp...

Apologies , i had misread your post.

 

[Zeusmotorworks]

Pretty sure thatJeepguy's post was not directed AT your use or experience downforce. I 1000% share his feelings and experience having spent a significant amount of time crawling IFS vehicles. I'd say across many platforms it is not wise to heavily load when stuck, MUCH less in reverse. However, it's been my experience the Jeep guys are the worst about throwing the skinny pedal at EVERYTHING!

 

[downforce137]

Pretty sure thatJeepguy's post was not directed AT your use or experience downforce. I 1000% share his feelings and experience having spent a significant amount of time crawling IFS vehicles. I'd say across many platforms it is not wise to heavily load when stuck, MUCH less in reverse. However, it's been my experience the Jeep guys are the worst about throwing the skinny pedal at EVERYTHING!

All good. I'm not that guy.. pretty much if I see I'm not moving, i stop tearing my stuff up and throw out a rope...