Full Race's "Gen 2.5" Raptor build

[Wfo]

ML3E is the base 3.5L (non HO) engine. As far as I can tell they're the same as the raptor heads. I could not find any difference in alloys, oil galleys, etc. The valves are different materials, although the cams and valvetrain are virtually identical

the MLE is a 3.0L nano engine used on the Explorer ST, police interceptor and others. great engine but definitely not compatible

I have not seen this failure mode before - do you know if this was 100% original inside, or had someone been in there previously? Since you're going to remove the camshafts you'll want to closely inspect your rollers and lifters. If that pin sheared it's feasible there was a violent stoppage on the cam where the pin was the fuse that let go.

Valve spring I'd hope is not the issue as that would indicate piston:valve contact

please also take a photo of the elastomer on your crank pulley if you get a chance

Thanks for the info!!

 

[TheClaw]

ML3E is the base 3.5L (non HO) engine. As far as I can tell they're the same as the raptor heads. I could not find any difference in alloys, oil galleys, etc. The valves are different materials, although the cams and valvetrain are virtually identical

the MLE is a 3.0L nano engine used on the Explorer ST, police interceptor and others. great engine but definitely not compatible

I have not seen this failure mode before - do you know if this was 100% original inside, or had someone been in there previously? Since you're going to remove the camshafts you'll want to closely inspect your rollers and lifters. If that pin sheared it's feasible there was a violent stoppage on the cam where the pin was the fuse that let go.

Valve spring I'd hope is not the issue as that would indicate piston:valve contact

please also take a photo of the elastomer on your crank pulley if you get a chance

I had phasers replaced previously under warranty, and then looked at again but they kept saying it was my iwe blah blah blah, will take pictures later of the crank pulley, im replacing the camshaft, who knew id have to uninstall/reinstall the roller followers after camshaft install...will take pictures once its off..

 

[full-race geoff]

Headgames just sent me this photo of the all new Gen 2 Raptor valves from SIvalves.

They are numonic 90 on the exhaust and ev8 intake valves.

Wow I’m excited.

 

[91Eunos]

@full-race geoff do you see the ”Gen 2.5” build up as something y’all might offer as an in-house swap at some point? Or is Headgames building the entire long block for y’all?

Any thoughts on Mountune’s long blocks?

I’m at 112K miles on my ‘18, and just got the phaser cold start rattle again last week…had them replaced 3x under warranty over the past 6 years, but thinking it’s about time for a complete refresh vs. just messing around with the phasers…plus new turbos, etc. Looking for a reliable 550+ HP build, with an emphasis on reliability and a nice fat torque curve vs. top end numbers.

Regardless, very cool project, and greatly appreciate the info you’re putting out there as you work through this build!

 

[thatJeepguy]

@full-race geoff do you see the ”Gen 2.5” build up as something y’all might offer as an in-house swap at some point? Or is Headgames building the entire long block for y’all?

Any thoughts on Mountune’s long blocks?

I’m at 112K miles on my ‘18, and just got the phaser cold start rattle again last week…had them replaced 3x under warranty over the past 6 years, but thinking it’s about time for a complete refresh vs. just messing around with the phasers…plus new turbos, etc. Looking for a reliable 550+ HP build, with an emphasis on reliability and a nice fat torque curve vs. top end numbers.

Regardless, very cool project, and greatly appreciate the info you’re putting out there as you work through this build!

I want their 4.1 stroker build . Only 16k…

 

[91Eunos]

I want their 4.1 stroker build . Only 16k…

Not to hijack the thread, but now some gears are turning! That 4.1 block, plus Headgames heads, Coyote top end parts, etc. plus Full Race/Garrett turbos and cooling. Hmmm…

 

[thatJeepguy]

Not to hijack the thread, but now some gears are turning! That 4.1 block, plus Headgames heads, Coyote top end parts, etc. plus Full Race/Garrett turbos and cooling. Hmmm…

Id probably be more inclined to just scoop gen3 heads. At MOST , do a spring swap.

 

[91Eunos]

Id probably be more inclined to just scoop gen3 heads. At MOST , do a spring swap.

I assume they’re a direct swap, but don’t know for sure.

@full-race geoff did you consider that head option for your build?

Also, do y’all ever work with Tier One transmissions? Even though I just returned from a 5K round trip that took me through Phoenix on both legs, I’m starting to sense another one to your shop, along with a rebuilt trans, and with a stop at @GooseTuned on the way back to New Braunfels!

 

[full-race geoff]

do you see the ”Gen 2.5” build up as something y’all might offer as an in-house swap at some point? Or is Headgames building the entire long block for y’all?

Headgames is a specialist, my go-to for cylinder head prep only. They do not build engines or support turbos. Likewise Full Race is a specialist for air and fuel (turbos, intercoolers, fuel systems and supporting components). At this time neither of us have the bandwidth or resources to provide the level of customer support required in order to offer engine builds or physical installs. Maybe that will change in the future, we've had many requests from our local Arizona region asking. In the meantime thats why we're creating the videos and guides + sharing info on what's involved in the hopes that more independent shops and ford specialists will take performance seriously and fix these trucks right the first time

I’m at 112K miles on my ‘18, and just got the phaser cold start rattle again last week…had them replaced 3x under warranty over the past 6 years, but thinking it’s about time for a complete refresh vs. just messing around with the phasers…plus new turbos, etc.

Do you know exactly what was replaced and if you got HL3Z or ML3Z phasers? Where are you located exactly? I can come up with some ideas.

Looking for a reliable 550+ HP build, with an emphasis on reliability and a nice fat torque curve vs. top end numbers.

I am with you 100% - reliable + fat torque curve is the objective. and PS: are you an MX-5 or MX-3 91 eunos

I want their 4.1 stroker build . Only 16k…

considering the emphasis on reliability over outright power, I believe a stock stroke Gen3 OEM crank in an unsleeved open-deck Gen2 block is the best way to acheive that. The 4.1L stroker has darton sleeves (these can shift / sink) and a stroker crank (aftermarket cranks can fail if the machining or heat treat arent 100%). Until these parts are proven in the desert, which I have not seen, simple is the way for me! at least for now

Not to hijack the thread, but now some gears are turning! That 4.1 block, plus Headgames heads, Coyote top end parts, etc. plus Full Race/Garrett turbos and cooling. Hmmm…

I like your thinking

Id probably be more inclined to just scoop gen3 heads. At MOST , do a spring swap.

My plan is keep it simple, use the best parts possible and retain the Gen2 packaging. it is much easier to make power with a built Gen2 than a Gen3

fyi - the Gen3 head will not work in a Gen2 3.5L. the High pressure Fuel Pumps are on opposite cylinder heads and the fuel systems operate at different pressures and functionality, therefore are not compatible. The parts could physically install and fit up, but it would be a nightmare to try and get it working. The only way i could see a Gen3 engine functioning in a Gen2 would be heavy wiring for a Gen3 engine and PCM swap -or- a standalone computer (syvecs / motec)

Also, do y’all ever work with Tier One transmissions? Even though I just returned from a 5K round trip that took me through Phoenix on both legs, I’m starting to sense another one to your shop, along with a rebuilt trans, and with a stop at @GooseTuned on the way back to New Braunfels!

I do not know Tier one - i googled them and it looks like theyre only 30 miles north of us. It appears they offer a few different brand components with the option to add additional clutchpacks. I was leaning towards all suncoast components and welcome any input or suggestions.

 

[91Eunos]

Thanks @full-race geoff … great input.

Last ones were the HL3Z sprockets...there were some ML3Z gaskets, etc. listed on the printout from the dealership, but the sprockets were the old version according to the second page of my copy of the service writeup:



Weird that it only lists two, but I was told they replaced all 4. ‍

I’m in New Braunfels, TX… Just NE of San Antonio. Not afraid to travel though, as my most recent trip to Izzy Fab and HM in SoCal can attest!

And it’s the MX-5/Miata version Eunos. Not very many people get that reference. Well done!

91 Roadster was taken on the boards back when I was racing them, so I just used that one…and stuck with it ever since.