Full Race Stock Location Turbos

[WC114]

Is that 600 at the crank? Any turbo lag on the stock block?

 

[full-race geoff]

Turbo lag depends on which turbo size is selected and how hard the tuner is willing to push LSPI (low speed pre ignition)

600 at the crank on stock block appears to be the universally accepted safe limit. But, this is not black and white - the limit is not so much "power output" limit as it is "cylinder pressure" limit. And a bigger turbo will make more HP at lower cylinder pressure. (LSPI causes cylinder pressure to spike at low RPM and a leading cause of piston failure)

Ive had a number of meetings with Ford engineers and the key in making these motors live at high power levels always comes down to one factor - keeping cylinder pressure low. If you can reduce backpressure (larger turbine, larger housing, free flowing exhaust) and maintain sufficient fueling + conservative ignition values the setup can live. That said, it appears HP Tuners is the best way to tune a high power stock PCM Raptor. My personal daily driver has been at 510whp since day 1 (68k miles currently) and while we have not seen any EFR engine failures to date (stock or built) it is advisable to install a set of pistons and rods if you plan on making 600whp+

lastly - if you are considering a 600whp+ build, its somewhat worthwhile to consider an RMB longblock + turbo kit at the same time. RMB installs the Full Race turbokit on the longblock at no charge before shipping to his customers. This is a massive value add and saves an enormous amount of time and money in the long run

 

[melcam23]

Turbo lag depends on which turbo size is selected and how hard the tuner is willing to push LSPI (low speed pre ignition)

600 at the crank on stock block appears to be the universally accepted safe limit. But, this is not black and white - the limit is not so much "power output" limit as it is "cylinder pressure" limit. And a bigger turbo will make more HP at lower cylinder pressure. (LSPI causes cylinder pressure to spike at low RPM and a leading cause of piston failure)

Ive had a number of meetings with Ford engineers and the key in making these motors live at high power levels always comes down to one factor - keeping cylinder pressure low. If you can reduce backpressure (larger turbine, larger housing, free flowing exhaust) and maintain sufficient fueling + conservative ignition values the setup can live. That said, it appears HP Tuners is the best way to tune a high power stock PCM Raptor. My personal daily driver has been at 510whp since day 1 (68k miles currently) and while we have not seen any EFR engine failures to date (stock or built) it is advisable to install a set of pistons and rods if you plan on making 600whp+

lastly - if you are considering a 600whp+ build, its somewhat worthwhile to consider an RMB longblock + turbo kit at the same time. RMB installs the Full Race turbokit on the longblock at no charge before shipping to his customers. This is a massive value add and saves an enormous amount of time and money in the long run

Thanks for all the excellent info Geoff.


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[WC114]

Thanks for the breakdown

 

[Wfo]

Great info! Thanks for taking time to post!

 

[full-race geoff]

you are welcome! But i forgot to mention fuel -- 2 comments there:

-higher octane lowers peak cylinder pressure. 93 octane on the east coast is soo much better than the 90-91 octane on the west coast. and of course 94-100 octane is even better for reducing peak cyl pressure

-E85 really lowers peak cylinder pressure compared to most any form of gasoline (but E85 requires 2x the fuel supply). giant port injectors will eventually be easy to control

the point is i think this is a great engine and can make a whole lot of power. as long as there is good fuel, big turbos and a high average / low peak cylinder pressure

 

[melcam23]

I can’t wait Geoff.


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[full-race geoff]

I was talking to cam last weekend, he said winfield/goose would be tuning your truck? will be cool to see what Cobb can do.

 

[melcam23]

I was talking to cam last weekend, he said winfield/goose would be tuning your truck? will be cool to see what Cobb can do.

Yeah any refinement to the current Cobb Tune that Cam did will be done by Winfield. Cam really wasn’t tuning a ton of Fords. My truck and a couple of Focus ST’s. He put that monster turbo on the wagon. I can’t wait to see what that car does.


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[Wfo]

Winfield did an excellent stage 2 tune on my truck. Getting on the highway it pulls even with my friend c63amg with a tune. I’m also on 37s.