GEN 2 Ford wants to put in new engine

[smurfslayer]

I’m surprised I’m getting responses to just take a new engine. Every person I have told this to has told me they would ask for new truck.

In COLORADO lemon law is 4 attempts to fix or 30 business days without truck. I went through Ford and they told me today they don’t believe it means lemon law. Also told me to resubmit after new engine put in. It’s all technicalities and I agree would need to get lawyer involved. What is an “attempt”? Have they given up on attempts since putting in new engine? Is new engine an “attempt”? What does it mean to be without truck? I’m not going on 1,000 trip with noise in engine so I could argue I haven’t had truck for over 60 days since I bought it.


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First: Take the engine.
second: stop talking to Ford, their mechanics, service department etc. about the lemon law.
third: get video BEFORE you get the repair. keep all your doc.

it’s not clear whether you’re going through Ford c/s to replace the truck or not. You won’t get a new truck this easily. Disabuse yourself of this notion now. You will be able to reasonably score either an ESP warranty or a loaner, not both.

DO NOT take a loaner. Most lemon laws exclude time that the manufacturer or dealer provides you a loaner.

Now I realize you bought the truck and it was symptomatic from day one. Without a video, it’s tough to say what the issue was. if it’s a constant tap, and the dealer agrees it’s not normal there’s likely something out of spec and you’re better off with a new engine than a tear down, head scratching, reassembly, problems still present, disassembly again, more head scratching, reassembly wash, rinse, repeat. You want to be done with the problem.

What’s your measurement for success?
If you have to have a new truck, take the engine, sell the truck OR argue for a guaranteed trade on a new one. There’s not a likely way to use this option and not have to spend a bunch more money.

If you are willing to accept the new engine and move on with life, congratulations. You win life.

If you need to have a new truck, prepare for a fight. A long fight, a frustrating one and you will not make money.

Lemon law suits take from 3-18 months to resolve. They vary state to state but generally allow for a persistent problem or related problems totaling 30 days down ( most use calendar, not business days ) across multiple attempts to repair. Once you file papers - a lawyer is pretty much required - From that day on, you VIN is flagged by the manufacturer as under suit. Every dealer visit requires a full inspection looking for an excuse to void your warranty. You may drive the vehicle from the date you file papers until resolution if it is drivable, but some states require a “last chance” to make the customer happy with the vehicle. You may, or may not need an expert witness, Ford has them on retainer as well as legal staff.

After several months of silence, the manufacturer will either offer non binding arbitration and / or a last chance repair. You need a witness for the last chance repair. You need eyes on the vehicle the whole time. My lawyer had to shoo away onlookers who had no business around my lemon at the “last chance” repair effort. They had the regional manager there, quizzing the mechanic on everything he did, and if he thought the truck was being abused - after 10 minutes of this, the mech. told the guy bluntly to **** and let him work, then told the service manager got get the regional guy out of the bay or he wouldn’t work. I can’t prove it, but I know they were in my truck before the repair and my lawyer did too because we rigged the doors to show it. he noted that, and questioned the service manager who offered no comment in a very guilty sounding tone. This is how adversarial it gets.

After this stuff is done, the manufacturer gets a report from the regional guy and their counsel, who are also there for the last chance repair. If the repair went your way or was marginal, you get an offer to replace the vehicle. if it’s cut and dry, they offer a replacement or money. If they offer money, they know their goose is likely cooked in court. It’s never guaranteed mind you, but it’s a clue. If they don’t respond or want to go to trial, you’re f***cked. They know something.

if you get a replacement offer you can negotiate. make sure to cover expenses, legal fees and any mods.

NOW, if you can negotiate a buy back via Ford c/s, you can avoid all this drama but as I said, I think that’s a reach given how little time and mileage on the truck. Not impossible, but unlikely.

If it were me, I would continue to be hard nosed about a new truck but would fall back to a Ford provided and paid for, full term, maximum mileage and duration ESP.

Good luck !

 

[Oldfart]

What a giant pain in the balls!!!!

 

[FastEddie]

Agree w/ ss above

 

[HeavyAssault]

Are you worried about the resale value down the road??

 

[StueyMinion]

Yup. Resale value one concern. Also believe it’s impossible to duplicate a factory installed engine.


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[zombiekiller]

long gone are the days where "numbers matching" was "still a thing". I'd take the new motor, make them give me an esp gratis and love driving the truck.

a new motor is a new motor is a new motor.

if i was shopping your truck and i pulled up a carfax or something which showed it had a new motor early on, I'd simply ask "what happened?". If you told me that there was a manufacturing defect in the first motor and that the new motor was installed at a dealer, under warranty, I wouldn't care.

a truck is a depreciating asset. trucks that are used as trucks break. good owners then fix them and they are good as new. do you think diesel guys care if a motor has been rebuilt? if anything it increases the value.

 

[StueyMinion]

Keep the opinions coming. I appreciate them all. Curious if anyone out there had a similar problem where they had to have new engine right away.

Also, any argument for buyers remorse clause? Paper I signed said bring back within 10 days or 200 miles and get all money back. I brought back and reported problem within those limits. If they would have known at that time it needed new engine I would have told them I’ll take my money back. Am I out of luck simply because it took two months to get to this point?


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[goblues38]

let them put a new engine in. With 1,300 miles on your truck....it is really no different then if they would have found an issue during quality control and replaced the engine before you got the truck. That happens from time to time....just in this case, you are aware.

There is really no downside to you getting a brand new engine at 1,300 miles. you will never know the difference.

 

[smurfslayer]

Keep the opinions coming. I appreciate them all. Curious if anyone out there had a similar problem where they had to have new engine right away.

Also, any argument for buyers remorse clause? Paper I signed said bring back within 10 days or 200 miles and get all money back. I brought back and reported problem within those limits. If they would have known at that time it needed new engine I would have told them I’ll take my money back. Am I out of luck simply because it took two months to get to this point?


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if you did not express a desire to invoke the money back clause, that’s no longer relevant. You bought the truck back and raised a warranty concern, but did you say - hey, this is crap, I want my money back??

That’s a generous time period and mileage too.

Actually didn’t test drive. It was new of train from factory and hadn’t gone through their inspection process so couldn’t drive. But is was the truck I wanted and the right price. Would never think something like this would happen so didn’t worry about test driving it.

The last car I bought before the Raptor I did pretty much the same thing; I got lazy on my pre buy “inspection” and I missed a curbed wheel. The dealer covered it no fuss, no muss.

When it came time those many years later, I went over the Rap with a fine toothed comb, took pictures from every angle, even underneath, checked tire pressure with my own gauge, compared to the truck’s TPMS, checked the fluids, went to the interior, checked and photographed that, then we did an hour plus test drive and I went over it again after I got back.

There was a post along the lines of ‘post all your 2017 Raptor problems here’ in the Gen2 forum, and I used it as a punch list.
We were there for hours, but only about 35 minutes of paper work.

I’m not trying to browbeat you here, I did the self same thing a vehicle ago. Just to re-emphasize to readers that you must not skip the pre-purchase inspection.

 

[FLeeDog]

New truck all the way. Will the new engine be numbers matching to the Vins on the balance of the components???

I have a very first Gen 1 6.2L without emblems that I am considering parking for the investment value and looking into a new one. This string does not give me confidence....