Ford penny pinching on 2020's?

[dreys]

In the industry it's called de-contenting. The idea is to remove redundancies and unnecessary details without going so far as to have the consumer notice or be dissatisfied. How well they succeeded in that endeavor is ultimately determined by us, the consumer.

The deletion of the illuminated shift pattern is not something I object to. The shift indicator is in the Instrument Cluster; there is no reason to look down at night to see what gear it's in when it's literally illuminated right in front of you.

I've had the illuminated USB ports before and I think it's a nice touch. Unfortunately they seem to have not made the cut. I didn't even notice the cup holder change; good catch. I think those spring loaded fingers were useful.

This all depends on what your expectations of quality are.

For example, in relatively inexpensive Ford Fiesta those cost savings are understandable, are somethings customers can forgive.

However, when car gets into $70k+ price range, requirements and expectations for quality are different. For Ford, using small things to see how far they can get away leaves a bad aftertaste and creates an overall experience of asking the question: "Where else corners have been cut? Are there things inside the truck that would become issues in a few years?"

Just last week Ford had to settle $30+ million clash action suite for faulty transmissions on Fiesta. Exactly same story, how far they can get away with before people will notice.

I do hope things on Raptor will hold up, and the story of Fiesta will not be applicable to Raptor.

 

[apcf150]

Yeap.... You get no lights for USB and no lights for PRND shifter. Pretty sad that's the route they're taking.

This! I noticed the PRNDM wasn't illuminated on my new 2019 last night and I spent more time than I would like to admit looking for a brightness dial to figure out why it wasn't lighting up. Kind of ridiculous when the MSRP is 75K.

 

[FordTechOne]

This all depends on what your expectations of quality are.

For example, in relatively inexpensive Ford Fiesta those cost savings are understandable, are somethings customers can forgive.

However, when car gets into $70k+ price range, requirements and expectations for quality are different. For Ford, using small things to see how far they can get away leaves a bad aftertaste and creates an overall experience of asking the question: "Where else corners have been cut? Are there things inside the truck that would become issues in a few years?"

Just last week Ford had to settle $30+ million for faulty transmissions on Fiesta. Exactly same story, how far they can get away with before people will notice.

You're confusing a supplier issue with de-contenting. Two completely different things.

The Focus/Fiesta transmission issue was the result of Ford needing an affordable, efficient transmission to maintain/increase fuel economy. Getrag, which is a German suppler, offered up their twin-clutch 6 speed transmission, so Ford contracted with them. This was immediately after the recession, so it's not like they had a ton of options. Budgets were low and many suppliers went belly up.

Once it was released, they started experiencing failed clutches due to input shaft oil leaks contaminating the clutch discs. There was also an issue with the Transmission Control Modules (TCMs) which were made by Getrag as well. The issues only affected 2011-2014 Fiesta and 2012-2014 Focus. In 2015 both were redesigned with new seals, new clutch material, and new TCMs. The transmission itself wasn't "faulty" in the least, but it was riddled with poorly manufactured seals and TCMs in the first few years of production.

Your assertions are not reality. Once Ford realized the issues that were occurring, they issued warranty extensions on both the clutches and the TCMs to cover owners who experienced an issue out of base powertrain 5/60 warranty. The media loves to embellish this, to the point of alleging that it was intentional. Having lived through it, that's a load of shit. All of that $30 Million went to the scumbag lawyers.

As far as de-contenting; you're confusing that with engineering cost save. If you want to see what engineering cost save is, look under any new Kia Telluride/Hyundai Palisade and compare it with a 2020 Explorer . The Korean twins have been getting better reviews on their interior design compared with Explorer, but the powertrain and chassis is where the engineering cost save is on both. Both Korean SUVs are based on nothing more than a modified minivan platform with every critical chassis component manufactured from stamped steel. The front subframe doesn't even extend past the wheels; the engine is literally suspended from two mounting points attached to the unibody. Same story with the powertrains; rehashed V6/FWD transmission from previous models. The only thing they did right was steal talent from the German manufacturers for the interior/exterior design.

I don't know about you, but I'd rather my money be spent in powertrain and chassis engineering than in cupholders and illuminated USB ports.

 

[FordTechOne]

This! I noticed the PRNDM wasn't illuminated on my new 2019 last night and I spend more time than I would like to admit looking for a brightness dial to figure out why it wasn't lighting up. Kind of ridiculous when the MSRP is 75K.

The redundant display is in the Instrument Cluster....

 

[Deleted member 17706]

You're confusing a supplier issue with de-contenting. Two completely different things.

The Focus/Fiesta transmission issue was the result of Ford needing an affordable, efficient transmission to maintain/increase fuel economy. Getrag, which is a German suppler, offered up their twin-clutch 6 speed transmission, so Ford contracted with them. This was immediately after the recession, so it's not like they had a ton of options. Budgets were low and many suppliers went belly up.

Once it was released, they started experiencing failed clutches due to input shaft oil leaks contaminating the clutch discs. There was also an issue with the Transmission Control Modules (TCMs) which were made by Getrag as well. The issues only affected 2011-2014 Fiesta and 2012-2014 Focus. In 2015 both were redesigned with new seals, new clutch material, and new TCMs. The transmission itself wasn't "faulty" in the least, but it was riddled with poorly manufactured seals and TCMs in the first few years of production.

Your assertions are not reality. Once Ford realized the issues that were occurring, they issued warranty extensions on both the clutches and the TCMs to cover owners who experienced an issue out of base powertrain 5/60 warranty. The media loves to embellish this, to the point of alleging that it was intentional. Having lived through it, that's a load of shit. All of that $30 Million went to the scumbag lawyers.

As far as de-contenting; you're confusing that with engineering cost save. If you want to see what engineering cost save is, look under any new Kia Telluride/Hyundai Palisade and compare it with a 2020 Explorer . The Korean twins have been getting better reviews on their interior design compared with Explorer, but the powertrain and chassis is where the engineering cost save is on both. Both Korean SUVs are based on nothing more than a modified minivan platform with every critical chassis component manufactured from stamped steel. The front subframe doesn't even extend past the wheels; the engine is literally suspended from two mounting points attached to the unibody. Same story with the powertrains; rehashed V6/FWD transmission from previous models. The only thing they did right was steal talent from the German manufacturers for the interior/exterior design.

I don't know about you, but I'd rather my money be spent in powertrain and chassis engineering than in cupholders and illuminated USB ports.

So do you know how a contract would work when Ford purchases a product from a supplier and the product is flawed? For example, was Getrag liable to refund or pay in part for the damage goods? I am curious what a business transaction like that entails. I would imagine Ford has some type of protection to protect themselves from being solely liable for a faulty part that they did not engineer and produce.

 

[BaseRaptor]

Interior parts are pretty obvious when manufacturers decide to decontent. What about all of the components that you can’t see?

 

[dreys]

You're confusing a supplier issue with de-contenting. Two completely different things.

The Focus/Fiesta transmission issue was the result of Ford needing an affordable, efficient transmission to maintain/increase fuel economy. Getrag, which is a German suppler, offered up their twin-clutch 6 speed transmission, so Ford contracted with them. This was immediately after the recession, so it's not like they had a ton of options. Budgets were low and many suppliers went belly up.

Once it was released, they started experiencing failed clutches due to input shaft oil leaks contaminating the clutch discs. There was also an issue with the Transmission Control Modules (TCMs) which were made by Getrag as well. The issues only affected 2011-2014 Fiesta and 2012-2014 Focus. In 2015 both were redesigned with new seals, new clutch material, and new TCMs. The transmission itself wasn't "faulty" in the least, but it was riddled with poorly manufactured seals and TCMs in the first few years of production.

Your assertions are not reality. Once Ford realized the issues that were occurring, they issued warranty extensions on both the clutches and the TCMs to cover owners who experienced an issue out of base powertrain 5/60 warranty. The media loves to embellish this, to the point of alleging that it was intentional. Having lived through it, that's a load of shit. All of that $30 Million went to the scumbag lawyers.

As far as de-contenting; you're confusing that with engineering cost save. If you want to see what engineering cost save is, look under any new Kia Telluride/Hyundai Palisade and compare it with a 2020 Explorer . The Korean twins have been getting better reviews on their interior design compared with Explorer, but the powertrain and chassis is where the engineering cost save is on both. Both Korean SUVs are based on nothing more than a modified minivan platform with every critical chassis component manufactured from stamped steel. The front subframe doesn't even extend past the wheels; the engine is literally suspended from two mounting points attached to the unibody. Same story with the powertrains; rehashed V6/FWD transmission from previous models. The only thing they did right was steal talent from the German manufacturers for the interior/exterior design.

I don't know about you, but I'd rather my money be spent in powertrain and chassis engineering than in cupholders and illuminated USB ports.

Not sure why you defend Ford or trying to find justifications for Ford cutting corners (sub-contracting, engineering savings, etc, etc, etc..)

The point of my post is that expectations of quality are different in $70K+ car vs $20k+ car. With higher price of vehicle there shouldn't be cut corners, there should be less plasticy feel all around and higher quality control on the finished vehicles.

You can debate all day and all night about quality of car A vs car B. Yet, it is industry standard that $70k+ car should go through more rigorous quality control, include better parts and materials, and have less corners cut. The $70k+ is a premium car price range, and if Ford believes that cost cutting items will not be noticed, that's not the case as multiple posts on these boards indicate.

 

[FordTechOne]

So do you know how a contract would work when Ford purchases a product from a supplier and the product is flawed? For example, was Getrag liable to refund or pay in part for the damage goods? I am curious what a business transaction like that entails. I would imagine Ford has some type of protection to protect themselves from being solely liable for a faulty part that they did not engineer and produce.

Depends on the details of the contract. It can go one of two ways.

1. The manufacturer (Ford) buys the component from the manufacturer. All failures of said component are the responsibility of the supplier. Including any recalls.

2. The manufacturer buys the product at a discount, but assumes all liability for warranty cost/recalls. I believe this is where the fatal mistake was made in this contract.

 

[FordTechOne]

Not sure why you defend Ford or trying to find justifications for them cutting corners (sub-contracting, engineering savings, etc, etc, etc..)

Not defending anyone, just providing the facts. There is no "sub-contracting", automakers rely heavily on their supplier base for their end products. That is true whether it's a Kia or a Porsche. Suppliers are rated by Teirs, with Teir 1 being the highest. Getrag is (was?) considered a Teir 1 supplier.

The point of my post was that expectations of quality are different in $70K+ car vs $20k+ car. With higher price of vehicle there should be less corners cut, less plasticy feel all around and higher quality control on the finished vehicles.

You can debate all day and all night of quality on car A vs car B. Yet, it is industry standard that $70k+ car should go through more rigorous quality control, include better parts and materials, and have less corners cut. If Ford believes that cost cutting items will not be noticed, that's not the case as multiple posts on these boards indicate.

This is starting to sound like a Corvette forum. I have no "plasticy" feel in my truck. There is no "industry standard" for a price point. You can spend $50K on a Kia with every conceivable option that will rust out and fall apart before the warranty is up or $50K on a Mercedes with no options that will be solid for years to come. The price you're paying for an F-150 Raptor is in the chassis and powertrain engineering. Even the frame itself is unique compared with any other F-150. The interior is more or less the same as any other high level F-150 save for the carbon fiber/Racaro package.

 

[Chiefapple]

Not defending anyone, just providing the facts. There is no "sub-contracting", automakers rely heavily on their supplier base for their end products. That is true whether it's a Kia or a Porsche. Suppliers are rated by Teirs, with Teir 1 being the highest. Getrag is (was?) considered a Teir 1 supplier.



This is starting to sound like a Corvette forum. I have no "plasticy" feel in my truck. There is no "industry standard" for a price point. You can spend $50K on a Kia with every conceivable option that will rust out and fall apart before the warranty is up or $50K on a Mercedes with no options that will be solid for years to come. The price you're paying for an F-150 Raptor is in the chassis and powertrain engineering. Even the frame itself is unique compared with any other F-150. The interior is more or less the same as any other high level F-150 save for the carbon fiber/Racaro package.

And all automotive manufacturers charge their suppliers for problems. Even a missed or delayed shipment can result in 100k charge back to the supplier... trust me. I know.


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