Did Ford remove BOTH sets of crash bars or just the front ones?

[Ruger]

Correction > G2's are vastly superior in every way

An excellent example of a standard propaganda technique. A polarized argument - "vastly superior in every way" - is advanced with nothing to support it. Another use of the same propaganda technique was Joseph Goebbels' argument that "Arians" were vastly superior to Jews.

So let's deconstruct this, shall we? How many ways are there for one truck to be superior to another? Is the windshield superior? The brake lines? The Schrader valves on the AC lines? Bumpers, body metal, headliners, gear shift knobs, gear ratios? There is, in fact, as many ways for one truck to be superior to another as trucks have parts.

And what does "vastly superior" mean? How would, say, the gas pedal on one truck be vastly superior to another truck's gas pedal? Jake said, "in every way," so a Gen 2's gas pedal has to be vastly superior to a Gen 1's gas pedal. That's what he said actually means.

So, of course, this use of an old propagandist's trick is both false and misleading. That's why no proof is offered, because it's impossible to prove. This is especially so because there are likely to be plenty of part numbers common to both Gen 1s and Gen 2s. Those parts can't be "vastly superior in every way" if they're the exact same parts.

This would be more fun if it were difficult. Oh well.

 

[crash457]

New technology? Turbochargers? You're kidding, of course. GM was putting turbochargers in production cars in the early 1960s.

BTW, "it's" means "it is." It's a contraction, don't you know.
"Its" is the possessive form. The one you should have used in your first sentence.

Glad you caught that grammatical error, yet missed the point of the rest of my post.

I see you like to claim that your Gen1 is a "beast" because of the heft of it's steel construction and V8 powerplant.l, and how the Gen2 is inferior because of it's lightweight aluminum construction and small TTV6 powerplant. Considering this thread is about safety, I would like you to consider that a vehicle's excessive weight does not make it safer.

http://youtu.be/joMK1WZjP7g

And yes, GM was using turbochargers in the 1960s, and Ford was using V8s in the 1930s. Thank you for proving my point about a certain type of Gen1 owner. You clearly can only see what you want and find the difference between the two trucks that you don't like instead of enjoying the fact that the Gen2 will continue bringing in new enthusiasts to enjoy all that makes the Raptor a great truck.

I will say that I think the Gen1 is a great truck that changed the game and without it, the Gen2 wouldn't exist. I'm glad you have one and are enjoying it. Perhaps some day you will grow out of your narrow views and see that the Gen2 is every bit a Raptor as the Gen1. Merry Christmas.

 

[BajaFred]

An excellent example of a standard propaganda technique. A polarized argument - "vastly superior in every way" - is advanced with nothing to support it. Another use of the same propaganda technique was Joseph Goebbels' argument that "Arians" were vastly superior to Jews.

Flirting with Godwin's law, well done

 

[Oceanbnd]

No. The Gen 1 is a beast. It weighs 6,000 pounds, the vast majority of it steel. It has a high performance, large displacement V8 under the hood that was designed specifically for the truck and off-road use.

The Gen 2 is an aluminum wanna be, and the competition's commercial showing what happens to aluminum sheet metal when it gets hit by something big and heavy is proof enough. The engine is borrowed from Ford's SUV line, and its performance shortcomings require the use of TWO turbo chargers. Oh yeah, no crash bars. First Ford disbanded the SUV unit, and then they offered the Gen 2. It's not a coincidence.

The January 2017 issue of American Rifleman did a two page laydown on the RAM Rebel, and I think it's superior to the Gen 2. It has a conventionally aspirated 5.7L V8 that makes 395 hp and 410 ft-lbs. Not up to either the Gen 1 or 2, but it makes its power without the need for the additional complexity of twin blowers. It weighs 5,387 pounds and it's steel. 8 speed transmission, 15 mpg city, 22 mph highway. Electric power steering.

If I were shopping for a go anywhere, do anything truck today I'd choose the RAM Rebel over the Gen 2. Thankfully, my Gen 1 real Raptor is crouching in the garage ready to take us to church tonight in 6 inches of freshly fallen snow.

Odd place to cite evidence. I mean really, a competitors tv commercial. Because that isn't cut to only show the message they intend and not actual evidence. Perhaps if the study had come from a real review or consumer reports I'd give more credence to it. Heck I don't even believe Ford commercials.

Also odd vehicle to recommend. Ram is being investigated by the Feds ( https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/feds-investigating-1-million-dodge-ram-vehicles-for-roll-away-collisions/ ) due to roll away accidents.

If you want to cite questionable aspects of the gen2, start with the 10-speed transmission. It's what worries me most. There's also a laundry list of things that are improvements over the previous gen (new shocks, better frame...yes it does also have steel, sync 3, better interior, better tires, 360 camera, etc) but as any technology, that's to be expected with a new version.

 

[NASSTY]

Of course! Ford invested a great deal in the R&D necessary to develop the 6.2L. And having made that investment, having developed an exceptional truck power plant, it made perfect economic sense to make it available in more than one truck model. The more trucks, the more engines. The more engines, the cost per engine unit goes down. That's good for Ford, for Ford stockholders, and Ford truck owners.

Too bad they didn't pass the savings onto the truck owners. The 6.2 had a $3490 upcharge over the 5.0 in (non Raptor) F150s.

 

[17Jake]

V g1 main competition below V

 

[FreightTerrain]

i own a 1raptor and a candy bar phone> at my advanced age i might take both of them to my grave> i should throw a pic of my truck in with every post i make> seems to be the norm for some

 

[NASSTY]

i should throw a pic of my truck in with every post i make> seems to be the norm for some

Some of those FRF Ladies have too much time on their hands.

 

[RC51TOFUMAN]

No. The Gen 1 is a beast. It weighs 6,000 pounds, the vast majority of it steel. It has a high performance, large displacement V8 under the hood that was designed specifically for the truck and off-road use.

The Gen 2 is an aluminum wanna be, and the competition's commercial showing what happens to aluminum sheet metal when it gets hit by something big and heavy is proof enough. The engine is borrowed from Ford's SUV line, and its performance shortcomings require the use of TWO turbo chargers. Oh yeah, no crash bars. First Ford disbanded the SUV unit, and then they offered the Gen 2. It's not a coincidence.

The January 2017 issue of American Rifleman did a two page laydown on the RAM Rebel, and I think it's superior to the Gen 2. It has a conventionally aspirated 5.7L V8 that makes 395 hp and 410 ft-lbs. Not up to either the Gen 1 or 2, but it makes its power without the need for the additional complexity of twin blowers. It weighs 5,387 pounds and it's steel. 8 speed transmission, 15 mpg city, 22 mph highway. Electric power steering.

If I were shopping for a go anywhere, do anything truck today I'd choose the RAM Rebel over the Gen 2. Thankfully, my Gen 1 real Raptor is crouching in the garage ready to take us to church tonight in 6 inches of freshly fallen snow.

Well said

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[Geo_Tactical]

"superior" and "better" are both subjective. If you prefer a V8, steel body, 6 speed transmissions, and want access to a huge number of bolt on performance mods, then the gen1 is superior because it fits the bill for what you prefer. If you prefer a turbo charged V6, 3.0 shocks from the factory (trade-offs there), more electronic drive mode options, lots of gears, and aluminum, then the gen2 is superior because it aligns with what you prefer. Real-world, in the dirt comparisons of performance between the two will likely result in two trucks that do just as well, with the differences noticed being driver related. For now, modded gen1's will perform notably better than a stock gen2, but once the aftermarket world catches up, modded gen2's will probably also be very similar. At the end of the day we're talking about two trucks with 4 wheels, and engine, and some beefed up shocks. It's not like one has retractable wings or some shit. Anyway, Merry Christmas

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