COBB Stage 1 First Impressions on 2019.

[RAG13]

im using the stage 1 with a 93 oct tune and i thought the truck was night and day difference faster. I havent even adjusted the DPC, this is just in regular mode as well. I dont know if something is wrong with your truck or the tune didnt install correctly because the difference in power is noticeable by most people who get in the truck with me.

I'm going to uninstall, and then reinstall the tune and see what happens. Now I'm really perplexed as to why I'm not seeing it the way you are. Thanks for the input on this.

 

[sixshooter_45]

I'm going to uninstall, and then reinstall the tune and see what happens. Now I'm really perplexed as to why I'm not seeing it the way you are. Thanks for the input on this.

I'd think about letting Cobb review the tune just to be sure there aren't any issues within the program itself.

I suppose it's possible.

 

[RAG13]

I will do that, because the more I read about what it should be, as well as Cobbs reputation, I feel there may indeed be something wrong. Thank you.

 

[BIG TIME BALLER]

I think you hit it in an earlier post.

+50 “peak” RWHP/TQ is not that noticeable on a 6000lb truck that already has 380 RWHP (+15%). You would need to significantly raise the entire curve... particularly the TQ curve to “feel” it in this truck.

What is the point of the tune if you were satisfied with the “feel” of the PC? Are you going to drag race someone in your Raptor? Are you going to go 105 MPH across the desert instead of 100?

Unlikely in either case... you want the “feel”. And probably the satisfaction in your mind that you now have *** more HP/TQ... even though you will never use it.

Save some money and some warranty and stick with the PC.

 

[Badgertits]

I have yet to pull trigger on tune keep reading forums/researching & talking to people w/ experience having tuned vehicles.

I question whether or not ANY tune that doesn't address the tranny programming is actually making the truck FASTER - I have no doubt they make more power over the stock tuning, but whether or not that translates into noticeable improvement in acceleration w/o anything done to the tranny is questionable to me...from a 50-60mph roll maybe, but 0-60 & 1/4 mile not sure I'd be convinced. Have seen lots of dyno sheets & people saying their trucks FEEL faster (or don't depending who you ask) - but haven't seen squat as far as 0-100, 0-60, 1/4 mile times - legit ones anyhow (not dash timed lol)

 

[RAG13]

I think you hit it in an earlier post.

+50 “peak” RWHP/TQ is not that noticeable on a 6000lb truck that already has 380 RWHP (+15%). You would need to significantly raise the entire curve... particularly the TQ curve to “feel” it in this truck.

What is the point of the tune if you were satisfied with the “feel” of the PC? Are you going to drag race someone in your Raptor? Are you going to go 105 MPH across the desert instead of 100?

Unlikely in either case... you want the “feel”. And probably the satisfaction in your mind that you now have *** more HP/TQ... even though you will never use it.

Save some money and some warranty and stick with the PC.

I agree with you, I will never really "use" the added power anyway. However, just knowing its there for that occasional 40-90 blast is nice. These trucks are certainly not sports cars, but I guess with all the hype we hear and tend to believe, these are "performance" trucks. The word performance can mean many different things to different people. To your point of being "satisfied" with the PC, and therefore why would I need the tune. I guess as I alluded to in an earlier post, that "allure" of more and more power and performance, can be intoxicating to some. Its why I decided to move forward from the PC and seek even more power. I know this may sound foolish to some people, and it does in a way to me as well, but I some how just keep going back to that enticement of power, even though, as you said, I will never use it all to its extreme.

 

[COBB Tuning]

I'm going to uninstall, and then reinstall the tune and see what happens. Now I'm really perplexed as to why I'm not seeing it the way you are. Thanks for the input on this.

Luckily, we have a lot of internal checks during our flashing process to ensure that data is stored in the correct addresses, etc. If a corrupt file was flashed to the ECU, or if data was stored in the incorrect location, the truck literally wouldn't even start. If the AP says at the end of the flash that the flash was successful, then you've got nothing to worry about.

I'd think about letting Cobb review the tune just to be sure there aren't any issues within the program itself.

I suppose it's possible.

If you're interested, we can definitely take a look at some datalogs for you. For the datalog, put the truck into manual mode and hold it in 4th gear at 2500RPM; hit the gas WOT and complete the pull to redline. You can then email that datalog to [email protected] - customer service will relay the logs to me for review. Based on your feedback, I wouldn't expect for anything to be wrong with the truck, but I would be happy to double check with those datalogs.

Here is a guide that covers how to datalog: https://cobbtuning.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/PRS/pages/571899907/How+To+Datalog
Here is a guide that covers how to transfer that datalog from your AP to your computer: https://cobbtuning.atlassian.net/wi...er+maps+and+datalogs+using+Accessport+Manager

I have yet to pull trigger on tune keep reading forums/researching & talking to people w/ experience having tuned vehicles.

I question whether or not ANY tune that doesn't address the tranny programming is actually making the truck FASTER - I have no doubt they make more power over the stock tuning, but whether or not that translates into noticeable improvement in acceleration w/o anything done to the tranny is questionable to me...from a 50-60mph roll maybe, but 0-60 & 1/4 mile not sure I'd be convinced. Have seen lots of dyno sheets & people saying their trucks FEEL faster (or don't depending who you ask) - but haven't seen squat as far as 0-100, 0-60, 1/4 mile times - legit ones anyhow (not dash timed lol)

I don't have any data for 0-60, or 0-100, but our development truck ran a 13.6 @ 99, w/ a 1.9 60'. 2018 Raptor SuperCrew, Cobb Stage2 Package (intake, intercooler, Stg2 93 OCT map), stock wheel/tire, mid-90's *F and pretty humid Texas summer afternoon at Alamo City Raceway (San Antonio). Brake boosted in 4A. I'm no seasoned drag racer, and that was my only trip to the strip with that truck. I bet with more aggressive brake boosting at the line, there is another 0.1s on the 60', and on a cooler night probably 2-3 mph at the 1/4 trap. This was with a stock transmission tune.

The transmission in stock tune does not have any issues holding the extra torque and power. No RPM-flaring between gears, no shifting issues in any of the drive modes, etc.

 

[Badgertits]

Luckily, we have a lot of internal checks during our flashing process to ensure that data is stored in the correct addresses, etc. If a corrupt file was flashed to the ECU, or if data was stored in the incorrect location, the truck literally wouldn't even start. If the AP says at the end of the flash that the flash was successful, then you've got nothing to worry about.



If you're interested, we can definitely take a look at some datalogs for you. For the datalog, put the truck into manual mode and hold it in 4th gear at 2500RPM; hit the gas WOT and complete the pull to redline. You can then email that datalog to [email protected] - customer service will relay the logs to me for review. Based on your feedback, I wouldn't expect for anything to be wrong with the truck, but I would be happy to double check with those datalogs.

Here is a guide that covers how to datalog: https://cobbtuning.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/PRS/pages/571899907/How+To+Datalog
Here is a guide that covers how to transfer that datalog from your AP to your computer: https://cobbtuning.atlassian.net/wi...er+maps+and+datalogs+using+Accessport+Manager



I don't have any data for 0-60, or 0-100, but our development truck ran a 13.6 @ 99, w/ a 1.9 60'. 2018 Raptor SuperCrew, Cobb Stage2 Package (intake, intercooler, Stg2 93 OCT map), stock wheel/tire, mid-90's *F and pretty humid Texas summer afternoon at Alamo City Raceway (San Antonio). Brake boosted in 4A. I'm no seasoned drag racer, and that was my only trip to the strip with that truck. I bet with more aggressive brake boosting at the line, there is another 0.1s on the 60', and on a cooler night probably 2-3 mph at the 1/4 trap. This was with a stock transmission tune.

The transmission in stock tune does not have any issues holding the extra torque and power. No RPM-flaring between gears, no shifting issues in any of the drive modes, etc.

Thanks for the reply & info. I have no doubt the transmission in stock form has no problem functioning as intended w/ your tune on the ECM & I’m well aware w/ Cobbs rep in the tuning world & I would expect Cobb ensures their tunes don’t interfere w/ the stock transmission logic.......- my question/hypothesis however was that the stock transmission programming could detract from the added performance gained from an ECM tune from & could potentially even hinder acceleration - especially standing start acceleration - when combined w/ the stock tranny logic.

This was my experience previously w/ some GM auto equipped vehicles. The other thing being that all else being equal aside from manual vs auto tranny between 2 of the same model vehicles that when it came to tune only modifications that while the vehicle equipped w/ the auto will obviously dyno less due to parasitic loss & May also show a smaller % gain over stock from the tune over the same car w/ a stick shift, the initial performance gains from a tune alone were the complete opposite result, w/ the auto equipped car showing significant improvement in 0-60, 1/8 & 1/4 mile times while the gains were usually marginal w/ the stick shift car despite the bigger power jump.

And that was because of the tranny tuning that went along w/ the engine/AF tune. Pulled timing between shifts, torque mgmt, shift torque/firmness & shift points etc that all got tweaked in the tuning process.

I’m not trying to be a detractor from your products- I think you got some nice hardware I even ordered a Cobb coolant tank cover & drop in filter recently- but it’s just been my experience that a tune on an auto car ain’t a complete tune w/on the tranny being included. Now- I’d much prefer that vs. a BAD tranny tune- don’t get me wrong. I would like to know your thoughts on that.

Lastly- I think a stock tuned raptor running a Cobb FMIC & CAI & sipping 93 octane is capable of a 13.6 or better in those conditions as well. That doesn’t really help answer my question- if it were stock down to the air filter aside from a Cobb stage 1 tune then it would.

 

[RAG13]

Thanks for the reply & info. I have no doubt the transmission in stock form has no problem functioning as intended w/ your tune on the ECM & I’m well aware w/ Cobbs rep in the tuning world & I would expect Cobb ensures their tunes don’t interfere w/ the stock transmission logic.......- my question/hypothesis however was that the stock transmission programming could detract from the added performance gained from an ECM tune from & could potentially even hinder acceleration - especially standing start acceleration - when combined w/ the stock tranny logic.

This was my experience previously w/ some GM auto equipped vehicles. The other thing being that all else being equal aside from manual vs auto tranny between 2 of the same model vehicles that when it came to tune only modifications that while the vehicle equipped w/ the auto will obviously dyno less due to parasitic loss & May also show a smaller % gain over stock from the tune over the same car w/ a stick shift, the initial performance gains from a tune alone were the complete opposite result, w/ the auto equipped car showing significant improvement in 0-60, 1/8 & 1/4 mile times while the gains were usually marginal w/ the stick shift car despite the bigger power jump.

And that was because of the tranny tuning that went along w/ the engine/AF tune. Pulled timing between shifts, torque mgmt, shift torque/firmness & shift points etc that all got tweaked in the tuning process.

I’m not trying to be a detractor from your products- I think you got some nice hardware I even ordered a Cobb coolant tank cover & drop in filter recently- but it’s just been my experience that a tune on an auto car ain’t a complete tune w/on the tranny being included. Now- I’d much prefer that vs. a BAD tranny tune- don’t get me wrong. I would like to know your thoughts on that.

Lastly- I think a stock tuned raptor running a Cobb FMIC & CAI & sipping 93 octane is capable of a 13.6 or better in those conditions as well. That doesn’t really help answer my question- if it were stock down to the air filter aside from a Cobb stage 1 tune then it would.

This is in fact one of the most thoughtful and insightful posts I have read on this tuning issue to date. There is definitely "food for thought" here. Is the stock tranny programming actually hindering the ability to realize the gains from the tune?! Thank you Badgertits for seeing this in a new light. I am looking forward to Cobbs response on this.

 

[COBB Tuning]

Thanks for the reply & info. I have no doubt the transmission in stock form has no problem functioning as intended w/ your tune on the ECM & I’m well aware w/ Cobbs rep in the tuning world & I would expect Cobb ensures their tunes don’t interfere w/ the stock transmission logic.......- my question/hypothesis however was that the stock transmission programming could detract from the added performance gained from an ECM tune from & could potentially even hinder acceleration - especially standing start acceleration - when combined w/ the stock tranny logic.

This was my experience previously w/ some GM auto equipped vehicles. The other thing being that all else being equal aside from manual vs auto tranny between 2 of the same model vehicles that when it came to tune only modifications that while the vehicle equipped w/ the auto will obviously dyno less due to parasitic loss & May also show a smaller % gain over stock from the tune over the same car w/ a stick shift, the initial performance gains from a tune alone were the complete opposite result, w/ the auto equipped car showing significant improvement in 0-60, 1/8 & 1/4 mile times while the gains were usually marginal w/ the stick shift car despite the bigger power jump.

And that was because of the tranny tuning that went along w/ the engine/AF tune. Pulled timing between shifts, torque mgmt, shift torque/firmness & shift points etc that all got tweaked in the tuning process.

I’m not trying to be a detractor from your products- I think you got some nice hardware I even ordered a Cobb coolant tank cover & drop in filter recently- but it’s just been my experience that a tune on an auto car ain’t a complete tune w/on the tranny being included. Now- I’d much prefer that vs. a BAD tranny tune- don’t get me wrong. I would like to know your thoughts on that.

Lastly- I think a stock tuned raptor running a Cobb FMIC & CAI & sipping 93 octane is capable of a 13.6 or better in those conditions as well. That doesn’t really help answer my question- if it were stock down to the air filter aside from a Cobb stage 1 tune then it would.

Definitely a good point! For some vehicles, there can be really impressive acceleration improvements offered just from tuning the transmission. I think that is particularly the case for auto-equipped vehicles that aren't designed from the factory to be a 'sporty' or 'enthusiast' vehicle and don't have switchable drive modes - they program the trans to be as smooth as possible at the cost of speed to appeal to the average customer. There are also types of engine modifications that pair really well with trans. tuning - like a big cam in an N/A V8, where you would want to let the engine rev higher to take advantage of the new powerband. Since we're still in development for Raptor TCM tuning, I don't have the hard data to say how well this idea applies to the Raptor specifically, but I would bet there is at least a little room for improvement.

Whether or not ECU only or ECU + TCM represents a "complete" approach is more down to the customer. There are some who buy a vehicle and consider it complete as it rolls off the assembly line. Then, there are others who don't consider a project complete until the engine is wearing turbos as large as bowling balls. It all just boils down to what you want out of your car and how much you want to tinker with it. It's our goal to offer that choice to customers, from a simple ECU-only Stg1 flash to pep the truck up, to a more involved set of bolt-on modifications and trans. tune, to a built motor with a custom tune.

Since the biggest weak point of these trucks is the intercooler, performance of a physically stock truck (tuned or not) will be variable depending on environmental conditions. So, it's tough to say just how much faster a Stg1 flashed truck will be compared to stock. In cooler weather, I think you'd see a really big difference. But fully heat soaked on a super hot day, you just can't safely run the same amount of timing and boost as in cold temperatures. Based on what I've seen on the dyno, power gain differences in cold weather and hot weather stock vs. tuned are pretty similar from a % gain perspective, but at extreme high temperatures, the difference does diminish.

This is in fact one of the most thoughtful and insightful posts I have read on this tuning issue to date. There is definitely "food for thought" here. Is the stock tranny programming actually hindering the ability to realize the gains from the tune?! Thank you Badgertits for seeing this in a new light. I am looking forward to Cobbs response on this.

I wouldn't say that the stock trans. calibration is hindering the truck from putting down the power. But, there are shifting characteristics of conventional torque converter automatics that are tuned to the powerband of the vehicle - shift points, converter lockup, etc. These could be optimized to make the most out of a Stg1 or Stg2 flash, but I don't expect that difference to be significant in terms of 0-60 or 1/4 mile. What I think will make the biggest differences for acceleration are shift characteristics that are less dependent on the powerband of the engine, and control how gear changes occur. As it was mentioned earlier, dialing in torque modulation, pressures, and shift speed can all offer improvements. But at the same time, how much harshness do you exchange for that shift speed? Personal preference is tricky to predict, particularly when it comes to trans. tuning. We're exploring our options to see what we can offer customers to personalize their trans. tune to their preferences.

All good questions!

Best,
Sam@COBB