Center Channel in Audio Upgrade?

[Raptized]

Subd. I also upgraded all my door speakers and am looking at pillar tweeters. I have my dash speaker disconnected. I didn't even notice a difference.

I don't now why the speaker is 8 ohms. Going to a 4 ohm speaker is decreased resistance which I think translates to increased watts.

 

[The Car Stereo Company]

Ok here comes some dumb questions.

Hang with me....

Why disconnect it? I ask this for my scenario. No processor. Just upgraded speakers and a speaker level amp with a kicker 8 in my stock enclosure. Without it, won’t the sound stage be somewhere to the passenger side and at my feet? In this case is a center better than nothing?

Also, why was the stock Sony center 8 ohm? I know there is a reason I just don’t know the wiring well enough to know what it is. Is it wired off of another channel? So by going to 4 ohm am I pulling away from something else? The tweeters I upgraded seem awfully quiet?

Thanks for helping us. I know my “upgrades” are paltry compared to what you can do, but I kept it simple and invested in other areas.

Thanks man,

speakers are sold in pairs. so if you want to upgrade it you will have an extra. the amount of audio that comes out of the center speaker is minimal. you will also notice that aftermarket speakers require more power, because of this, the volume of you system has dropped although you gained clarity which in effect makes your system sound louder. if you amplify your speakers you will need a second amp for the center speaker. most mono channel amps are designed for a sub. i know there are some full range mono amps, but i dont remember seeing one with an adjustable high pass filter, again, they probably exist, just not something i see.i dont remember the resistance of the center speaker but if you are saying its 8 ohms, then you will need an 8 ohm speaker to put in there. if you use a standard 4 ohm speaker, you will make your oem amp work harder and possibly overheat at higher volumes. plus it may just go into a protection mode which will cut all audio. disconnect your center speaker and listen to it. see if you think its worth upgrading. in the end, it all comes down to you and what you want to do to your truck

 

[Nick@Apollo-Optics]

Well said, Noah.

I know you explained all this to me when we disconnected the center channel in the Gen 1 truck when you did the full install on that one.

 

[Guy]

That helps. Thanks

I’m just not sure why the center speaker is 8ohm when the factory speakers are all 4ohm in the other locations.

I replaced all my speakers already and the 4ohm in the center isn’t causing any problems in terms of overheating or faults.

The center speaker is very loud in my truck. It’s louder than the 6x9 on the doors and the tweeter in the coaxial speaker outpowers the door pillars. It’s very loud and bright in the middle. It is night and day different when you disconnect it... in terms of the sound stage. When it’s connected the sound stage is front middle but high. When you disconnect it.... the staging depends where I put my leg.

Im just not sure I can get enough out of the stock Amp to delete it. Again... I spent less than $500.00 on my radio. It’s a very frugal upgrade, but it significantly improved the audio. The kicker sub is a little muddy at times and at 8 inches it doesn’t reproduce the very low frequencies as well as I’d like, but powered with an additional 300 watts sure beats the factory. I started out with a Pioneer 200 Watts sub that admittedly made a cleaner sound, but changed to the kicker to get the volume.

Is there an easy way to add a processor and amp without having to rip apart the dash?

speakers are sold in pairs. so if you want to upgrade it you will have an extra. the amount of audio that comes out of the center speaker is minimal. you will also notice that aftermarket speakers require more power, because of this, the volume of you system has dropped although you gained clarity which in effect makes your system sound louder. if you amplify your speakers you will need a second amp for the center speaker. most mono channel amps are designed for a sub. i know there are some full range mono amps, but i dont remember seeing one with an adjustable high pass filter, again, they probably exist, just not something i see.i dont remember the resistance of the center speaker but if you are saying its 8 ohms, then you will need an 8 ohm speaker to put in there. if you use a standard 4 ohm speaker, you will make your oem amp work harder and possibly overheat at higher volumes. plus it may just go into a protection mode which will cut all audio. disconnect your center speaker and listen to it. see if you think its worth upgrading. in the end, it all comes down to you and what you want to do to your truck

 

[The Car Stereo Company]

That helps. Thanks

I’m just not sure why the center speaker is 8ohm when the factory speakers are all 4ohm in the other locations.

I replaced all my speakers already and the 4ohm in the center isn’t causing any problems in terms of overheating or faults.

The center speaker is very loud in my truck. It’s louder than the 6x9 on the doors and the tweeter in the coaxial speaker outpowers the door pillars. It’s very loud and bright in the middle. It is night and day different when you disconnect it... in terms of the sound stage. When it’s connected the sound stage is front middle but high. When you disconnect it.... the staging depends where I put my leg.

Im just not sure I can get enough out of the stock Amp to delete it. Again... I spent less than $500.00 on my radio. It’s a very frugal upgrade, but it significantly improved the audio. The kicker sub is a little muddy at times and at 8 inches it doesn’t reproduce the very low frequencies as well as I’d like, but powered with an additional 300 watts sure beats the factory. I started out with a Pioneer 200 Watts sub that admittedly made a cleaner sound, but changed to the kicker to get the volume.

Is there an easy way to add a processor and amp without having to rip apart the dash?

you can get all the sigal you need at the oem amp behind the rear seat. getting the right equipment is going to be expensive though. the processor is the most powerful piece of equipment in your system, everything else is trying to keep up. get a processor with your current setup and it will give you sound you never heard before. then you can upgrade amps and speakers in the future if you wish

 

[nikhsub1]

you can get all the sigal you need at the oem amp behind the rear seat. getting the right equipment is going to be expensive though. the processor is the most powerful piece of equipment in your system, everything else is trying to keep up. get a processor with your current setup and it will give you sound you never heard before. then you can upgrade amps and speakers in the future if you wish

Can you be more specific about what processor you mean that will work?

 

[The Car Stereo Company]

i personally use the mosconi 6to 8. going to upgrade to the 8to12 eventually. as a meca sound judge i have seen all types of processors being used in sq competitions, but as a personal preference, the mosconi is the best. this is what i have in my truck...

focal 165wr-c front speakers
focal flax fx2 (or something like that) rear speakers
mosconi as 200.4 (x2) 1 is for my front stage. the second is for my rear speakers and bridged at 1ohm for my sub for 950 watts
mosconi 6to8 processor
audiomobile 10" subwoofers(x2) under the rear seat of my truck
AND NO CENTER CHANNEL SPEAKER.

 

[gijosh28]

@The Car Stereo Company

1) I was pretty sure some of the navigation and Sync/Alexa/OK-Google responses came from the center channel exclusively. Seems like some of them come from the doors and some come specifically from the center. I have had trouble figuring out the rhyme or reason for the source of some of the automation responses. It almost seems random.

2) You recommended adding a processor before everything else. Can you process factory signal into factory amps?

3) Have you tried the ForSCAN trick of turning off the stock Ford processing and converting the high level speaker outputs to 4V low level outputs (just add RCA ends)? Can you disregard the sound processor if you have true, unmolested 4V low level outputs?

@Guy - My guess it that the reason the center channel started overpowering everything is because you replaced an 8 ohm speaker with a 4 ohm speaker. The amp is now producing twice as much power to that channel. I am not sure if the B&O center is a different impedance. I haven't pulled mine and checked it yet. You might also go into your sound config on your Sync 3 radio, and try changing from Surround to Stereo. See how that changes things for you. I figured that setting would just about disable the center channel, but when I set it, I still seem to get automation responses from the center speaker sometimes. I need to spend some time trying it all out and figure out exactly what comes from where. I definitely need to do it before I start my stereo build.

Josh

 

[lawdog]

That helps. Thanks

I’m just not sure why the center speaker is 8ohm when the factory speakers are all 4ohm in the other locations.

I replaced all my speakers already and the 4ohm in the center isn’t causing any problems in terms of overheating or faults.

The center speaker is very loud in my truck. It’s louder than the 6x9 on the doors and the tweeter in the coaxial speaker outpowers the door pillars. It’s very loud and bright in the middle. It is night and day different when you disconnect it... in terms of the sound stage. When it’s connected the sound stage is front middle but high. When you disconnect it.... the staging depends where I put my leg.

Im just not sure I can get enough out of the stock Amp to delete it. Again... I spent less than $500.00 on my radio. It’s a very frugal upgrade, but it significantly improved the audio. The kicker sub is a little muddy at times and at 8 inches it doesn’t reproduce the very low frequencies as well as I’d like, but powered with an additional 300 watts sure beats the factory. I started out with a Pioneer 200 Watts sub that admittedly made a cleaner sound, but changed to the kicker to get the volume.

Is there an easy way to add a processor and amp without having to rip apart the dash?

Your center speaker is much louder because (a) it's probably got a much higher sensitivity than the paper **** that was in there, and (b) the reduced impedance is allowing it to be driven more easily by the stock headunit.

You've created an artificially enhanced soundstage with a pronounced center bias by making this change. If you like it, great...that's what it's all about. But, your point about imaging without it has some validity, too. The low placement of the 6x9s means that where you/your leg is can have a big impact on what you hear from that speaker and how the system images. Even the crappy stock midbass driver puts out/is crossed over for a good bit of audible and directional midrange sound, because it's essentially a component set with the A-pillar tweeter...it was one of my original criticisms of the system. Because you went back with a 3way in that location, it's probably producing even more midrange that can be affected.

But, over-emphasizing the center channel is not the preferred outcome for true stereo imaging. You are going far beyond even the DSP profile for a center channel-enhanced soundstage that was engineered for the factory setup. I was messing around in my stock 2018 yesterday with the DSP on, and I put a large book over the center channel at medium-high volume...almost totally inaudible difference. The center, as designed, just doesn't do/add much but fill/presence for the DSP. Again, if you like the very forward soundstage your setup has created, keep it. Otherwise, I'd follow the advice of the pros above.

 

[Guy]

So much great info from everyone who knows.

Appreciate it.

One caveat.... the Sony stereo doesn’t have any type of DSP that is user defined. You have bass, treble, midrange. You don’t have a surround option or anything else. Just basic balance faders. I imagine the other bells and whistles is part of the “upgraded” B&O.

The sound stage is too forward in its current form. It totally drowns out the A-pillar tweeters.

My man from The Car Stereo company has been giving me great advice. I’m thinking about how I can possibly re-do some things.

Your center speaker is much louder because (a) it's probably got a much higher sensitivity than the paper **** that was in there, and (b) the reduced impedance is allowing it to be driven more easily by the stock headunit.

You've created an artificially enhanced soundstage with a pronounced center bias by making this change. If you like it, great...that's what it's all about. But, your point about imaging without it has some validity, too. The low placement of the 6x9s means that where you/your leg is can have a big impact on what you hear from that speaker and how the system images. Even the crappy stock midbass driver puts out/is crossed over for a good bit of audible and directional midrange sound, because it's essentially a component set with the A-pillar tweeter...it was one of my original criticisms of the system. Because you went back with a 3way in that location, it's probably producing even more midrange that can be affected.

But, over-emphasizing the center channel is not the preferred outcome for true stereo imaging. You are going far beyond even the DSP profile for a center channel-enhanced soundstage that was engineered for the factory setup. I was messing around in my stock 2018 yesterday with the DSP on, and I put a large book over the center channel at medium-high volume...almost totally inaudible difference. The center, as designed, just doesn't do/add much but fill/presence for the DSP. Again, if you like the very forward soundstage your setup has created, keep it. Otherwise, I'd follow the advice of the pros above.