Cam Phaser/Engine Failure Reports

[rtmozingo]

For sure. When the tech pulled the valve covers and front timing cover off you could rotate the RH cam shaft back and forth and nothing else in the system was moving. There was probably 20° of rotational play when un-pressurized.

He has done a lot of these and said mine was pretty bad, not the worse.


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Did they think it was a design problem, and if so, what span of engines are affected? Trying to determine extent of condition

 

[OPT PRIME]

All four were bad, one particularly bad. All were replaced with updated part numbers and serialized, which means they feel a need to track these.

No one is saying it’s a defective engine, perhaps rushed out the door 18 months earlier than it should have been. I know they ran the 3.5 in the SHO for years before they risked their reputation by putting it into a truck. That being said the SHO is dead so the Raptor was a niche platform to beta test a Gen 2. Notice how the Gen 2 appeared a year later in the F150 and going into year 3 its available as a HO premium engine for Platinum and Lincoln? I look to that as proof there weren’t completely ready to bet the farm on the Gen 2.

Like all things, it’ll be a good engine when they get the kinks out.


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[kid icarus]

I could not agree more. It was a fantastic concept, and it makes great power and torque for what it is. However, Ford just missed the boat on certain engineering aspects of this engine. I am not sure they really care to fix it now since marketing hype is saving them. When visibility is applied to warranty, and then pareto'ed, there will be a decision. Fix it finally, or move away from the engine.

 

[smurfslayer]

I think you answered your own question. The cam phasers fail, then they damage the chains if not repaired quickly. That is the only point really. This is why Ford replaces both when they get a cold start rattle complaint. It's the same work being done on the 15/16 3.5 ecoboost, and even the previous gen ecoboost of 2010-14.
Merry Christmas man - sounds like you need some holiday cheer.

No, you’re doing the same thing you did when you were registered was MGD and got banned. You make a blatantly false troll, in this case about broken timing chains. They’re not breaking. Then you try to change the subject.

If you’re going to troll, you’re going to be called out for it.

So again, show us these broken timing chains. Don’t waste our time with “but they replace timing chains when the phasers fail”. that’s irrelevant to your false claims. let’s stick to the topic at hand.

I've seen most, if not all, trucks in for this issue get new timing chains. Cam phaser is cause, timing chain is damage.

Two different trucks in the Houston group caught it early and still got new timing chains.

correct, but they weren’t broken chains, were they?
I know why they’re replacing them. I’d bet there’s a few others on here who do as well. It has nothing to do with what sasquatch77 is trolling about. She knows little to nothing about ecoboosts, engines, trucks and much of life, obviously.

 

[rtmozingo]

correct, but they weren’t broken chains, were they?
I know why they’re replacing them. I’d bet there’s a few others on here who do as well. It has nothing to do with what sasquatch77 is trolling about. She knows little to nothing about ecoboosts, engines, trucks and much of life, obviously.

No broken chains, for sure.

I went through and looked up the various people that got phaser repair done, and while there were about a third that got timing chain replacements, it wasn't nearly as many as I remembered. I did see the guide come up a couple of times, and others have mentioned it might be the culprit. Sorry for the confusion, it is still an emerging issue. While I haven't found it tonight, I know I've seen at least two people say it led to premature stretching of the timing chains, hence the replacement. Or maybe just being overzealous to prevent future problems?

A person I trust who had his truck in for this was told the new parts hit 6/18/18, and had only his cams replaced.

 

[OPT PRIME]

But the cam phasers I got do not match the Tasca part numbers for a 2018 Raptor. In fact I can’t find those part numbers anywhere. That’s what lends me to believe beta testing continues.


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[rtmozingo]

But the cam phasers I got do not match the Tasca part numbers for a 2018 Raptor. In fact I can’t find those part numbers anywhere. That’s what lends me to believe beta testing continues.


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that's what is concerning about all of this. My understanding is this generation of ecoboost was supposed to finally fix this issue. The fact that it hasn't, and they are already trying out new parts, is indicative they have no idea what they are doing.

 

[smurfslayer]

product improvement campaigns which don’t implicate a TSB or recall may not show up online for a while. old/new side by side shots may help illuminate changes, but not necessarily.

These things take on a life of their own on the internet. There could be a few dozen plausible reasons for the isolated repairs and they are isolated. That means nothing to the people it happens too, as a friend of mine once quipped to a service advisor: “Just because you’ve allegedly never heard of this problem doesn’t mean $hit. My car is broken, so for me the failure rate is 100%”.

Nevertheless, we have 8 pages of posts to this thread, probably one page alone is trolling by sasquatch77, there are not even a full page of 1st hand, verified accounts of this. Again, not to minimize the impact to owners who had the repair, but if this were the design flaw some would have us believe, Chevy and dodge would be outselling F150’s hand over fist and you wouldn’t be able to give away a 2017+ Raptor.

 

[OPT PRIME]

If 1% of F150 owners participated in forums I’d be surprised and I have the same feelings toward Raptor owners. Most people don’t enjoy debate with strangers or even expenditure of time.

This thread reminds me of the Corvette LS7 valve dropping issue. There were quite a few vocal posts about the issue and eventually GM paid Katech to analyze the heads for valve train sustainability and prove to the world the problems were isolated to a certain, select few. GM never officially acknowledged a design problem however during the class action lawsuits they immediately jumped to “old GM” vs “new GM.”

The reality is when I first dropped my Vette off for this no one in service department had ever heard of the issue. After building a relationship with the service department I discovered there had been more than they led me to believe. At the race track, where I spend a lot of weekends, EVERY LS7 has blown up, some 2-3 times with very low mileage. When it came time to get new heads for my engine, there weren’t any in stock. If you talk to the engine builders they will all tell you to replace the engine with an LS3 and the 7 just had bad geometry. Again GM denies this as much as any corporation would.

In contrast my 2016 Miata blew up a tranny and Mazda was quick to acknowledge a weakness in their product. They had preemptively stocked upgraded transmissions throughout the country and my car came home TWO days later as good as new. There have been at least four updates to that transmission in its service life. The service advisor had said they had never seen a transmission failure. So which is it?

For me, I got an honest service department at Ford. I am just upset with FoMoCo as they make ever single owner with this issue sit it out for 4-6 weeks while they get parts to the scene. If that is the case what are they building the new engines out of?

Some will spend $75k of their own money and want to defend their brilliance in selecting a vehicle that has no issues. I too have spent the money yet don’t necessarily feel an obligation to defend Ford. I and others have posted experiences and events that are obviously well beyond anecdotal. I sincerely hope the cam phasers WERE a defective lot or design, if they weren’t then this engine is gonna have seriously epic reliability issues going forward.


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[smurfslayer]

We are enthusiasts, very few service department employees are enthusiasts to the level of us. A lot of people have a perception of customer service departments of being aware of every, single, solitary notice, communique, email, memo and smoke signal sent by corporate, but the reality is far, far from that. A lot of times we are the first impression a service advisor, mechanic, service manager and the like have to a problem. We could present them a hard copy of a TSB with part numbers and it quite legitimately can be the first time they have ever heard of the issue, much less the resolution. Now, that’s not to say it’s always true, there are cases in which the company knows there’s a problem and the employment agreement prevents any acknowledgement that could cost the company legally.

next time you’re at the stealership, look around and try to guess how many of your service advisors auto-cross, open track, drag race, drift or off road - competitively or just for fun. probably very few, if any.

@OPT PRIME, I agree, your posts provide 1st hand account with actual evidence that can be source verified. There have been others, and there have been more posts but lacking proof about the same issue. You’re also correct in that you touch upon Ford’s parts supply strategy, which appears to me at least to be diametrically opposed to good customer service. if it’s not windshield wipers, washer fluid or some other consumable, you’ve got about a 60% chance of your part being on “national back order”.

No product survives contact with the customer base unscathed. No matter how much QA you put into it, there’s going to be some customer somewhere trying something that probably should’ve been observed before release, but wasn’t. There is also going to be the one percenter who isn’t doing anything prohibited or wrong, just not prudent and escapes the traditional QA. You could have suffered a parts supplier change and only a range of the affected part made by this manufacturer are implicated, or it could be that Ford finds the part simply won’t last through the vehicle’s expected maintenance cycle and schedule. If they’ve put out new parts, it will be interesting to see if the new part makes it into manufacturing, like the metal oil pans superseding the plastic ones.