2020: Two Warranty Case Studies & Good Video

[sixshooter_45]

I wish Car manufacturers would let car enthusiasts choose if they want a warranty or not. Maybe cover obvious defects in manufacturing but that’s it. Give me options of warranty level at purchase. I’ve never purchased a vehicle because it had a warranty, because I know I’ll probably void it anyway. I was reading about the guy that just bought a raptor with 37’s and blew the tranny up and understand why it won’t be covered. Meanwhile the guy on keep it dirty has had his front end completely rebuilt under warranty while running 37’s. Doesn’t make sense to me.

Funny as I just left a message on Keep it Dirty Youtube's channel.

I believe because he has so many followers, but then again when he took it in one time tttt I watched and he did change his tires back to 35" to have the steering issue addressed.

 

[Muchmore]

@Muchmore Thank you. Candidly, this topic is one that is intensely debated within my organization (and I’d imagine in others). I think about it and discuss it with many.

I like hearing this. In a former profession, I was an insurance adjuster for an aftermarket warranty company. all I did was mechanical breakdowns for boat/motorcycle/auto/snowmobiles and RV's. When we gained popularity we also gained a lot of contention from dealers over this very topic. As an example, we discovered a single customer who was having brake issues on Subaru Ouback's that she owned, and I mean Subaru's plural because we discovered she had 4. They all had astronomical mileage on them and we discovered she was a rural route mail carrier. These vehicles were in and out of ditches every day.

It took some years but the dealership chain (warranty company) that I worked for finally got in lockstep with their own service departments and we all came to agree that as long as these customers were returning to an "in-network" dealer we would cover and pay for anything since we were keeping the money "in-house" so to say.

For those customers, it was like Christmas morning with the ease at which we worked together. For those that chose dealerships owned by other organizations, not so much.

Boy how times have changed.

 

[KAH 24]

I don’t understand the logic behind 37’s causing a denial of transmission warranty. Specifically if it’s a lighter 37”, with aftermarket wheels you could be lighter than stock weight with oem beadlocks

@TheTeej

Work=Force x Distance. A larger diameter tire forces the drivetrain to push a lot harder to go the same speed—significantly increasing the amount of torque load on the transmission.

@FordTechOne may be able to clarify this, but my understanding is the 10spd 10r80 is rated for 590lb-ft max torque capacity. Given that our trucks have 510lb-ft max torque at the crankshaft there is only 80lb-ft of wiggle room available.

This is also why I’m wary of boosting the performance of my stock engine. There is a “popular” Raptor version which bumps HP to 525 and TQ to 610 (via a tune). That is cutting it far too close in my mind (unless internal work is done to beef up the transmission—which of course kills factory warranty (thus aftermarket warranty).

 

[Deleted member 17706]

@TheTeej

Work=Force x Distance. A larger diameter tire forces the drivetrain to push a lot harder to go the same speed—significantly increasing the amount of torque load on the transmission.

@FordTechOne may be able to clarify this, but my understanding is the 10spd 10r80 is rated for 590lb-ft max torque capacity. Given that our trucks have 510lb-ft max torque at the crankshaft there is only 80lb-ft of wiggle room available.

This is also why I’m wary of boosting the performance of my stock engine. There is a “popular” Raptor version which bumps HP to 525 and TQ to 610 (via a tune). That is cutting it far too close in my mind (unless internal work is done to beef up the transmission—which of course kills factory warranty (thus aftermarket warranty).

I could be wrong, but I thought @FordTechOne was talking about HP and in particular WHP when he gave that figure.

In reference to the OP, 37s are not the culprit. I understand the truck was sold as is, but the dealership sold you a vehicle that was defective. I would have hired an attorney ASAP. That dealership screwed you over.

 

[FordTechOne]

@TheTeej

Work=Force x Distance. A larger diameter tire forces the drivetrain to push a lot harder to go the same speed—significantly increasing the amount of torque load on the transmission.

@FordTechOne may be able to clarify this, but my understanding is the 10spd 10r80 is rated for 590lb-ft max torque capacity. Given that our trucks have 510lb-ft max torque at the crankshaft there is only 80lb-ft of wiggle room available.

This is also why I’m wary of boosting the performance of my stock engine. There is a “popular” Raptor version which bumps HP to 525 and TQ to 610 (via a tune). That is cutting it far too close in my mind (unless internal work is done to beef up the transmission—which of course kills factory warranty (thus aftermarket warranty).

Exactly, 800 Nm, which is 590 lb-ft.

 

[1BAD454SSv2]

Better not tow anything .Because your
Work=Force x Distance is a lot greater . Than putting 37s on.

Angle of the dangle is directly proportional to the mass of the ***

 

[KAH 24]

Exactly, 800 Nm, which is 590 lb-ft.

@FordTechOne Sir as always thank you. I respect your ethical, competent, consistent approach borne of experience in addressing us. If you have a moment—please let me know if I missed anything.

The engineer in me shakes my head every, single, time—when I hear of folks pushing more HP/TQ through OEM transmissions (at my company, at my previous employers, etc.).

The engineer in me shakes my head likewise when folks put larger diameter tires on a vehicle and then are puzzled when things go south at some point.

In my role the thermodynamics/fluids/metallurgy engineering background is necessary (military paid for every bit of my education including staying current in my ASME/AIAA membership for years while Active/NG—and I am forever thankful).

TRANSMISSION 101:

—Budget plays a role in design: If we wanted everything engineered perfectly, the Raptor would double in price easily. Engineering, procurement, etc., operates within a budget—and comes up with the best solutions possible.
—OEM: The nominal capacity of every drivetrain component (WARRANTY) is based on stock/factory parameters.
—TQ is extremely hard on transmissions, which is why nominal max is based on TQ—shifting places the TQ load on every component. TQ max hits the transmission 100% of the time for folks who accelerate through the gears.
—HP is hard on transmissions, but since it occurs at the top end of the rev range—the transmission is likely in the higher gears, which using my calculations on leverage/gearing is in a “sweeter spot” to deal with the power at the top end.
—Thermo/fluids physics: Energy creates heat, fluid motion creates heat, boundary transitions create heat, friction creates heat.
—Metals: Modern transmissions are a marvel of science. The engineered alloys w/resistance to heat & paradoxically may run cooler are placed in highest wear areas. This is a benefit as the strongest link needs to be the gears, bearings, etc., which withstand over 30 million shock stresses per minute (being conservative in this calculation as I based it on a 30 minute cycle and calculation we use at my company where the cycling from gear 1 to gear 5 is in city traffic, fluctuating from 0-50, based on proprietary calculations of how many stop starts occur).
—Clutch plates, etc: The metal information above is important as the strongest link as the transmission operates as a closed system. Friction absorbing clutch components are a weaker link which is good (high heat resistance, but wear faster than metal)
—Maintenance: Changing my transmission fluid/filter/and cleaning the internal components does nothing—does not help with the physics above. I could R&R the above daily—and it does not help with the physics (the living hell that clutch plates, gears, bearings, solenoids, etc. endure).

Nominal max TQ is most important for the reasons outlined above—which is why it is always posted. Nominal max HP is not posted/shared by OEMs in some cases (for various reasons which could create another engineering thread).

Bigger tires (37” vs. LT 305/70R-17fall far, far, outside of the design parameters for OEMs. Using math, the longer lever of a 37” tire

Heavier tires manufactured by reputable OEMs within reason, in stock OEM sizes (LT 305/70R-17) are well within design parameters—as the length of the lever does not change (the distance from hub to outside).

NOTE: This also impacts every, single, system in the drivetrain—engine/diffs/transfer case/CVs/u-joints/etc.)

 

[Muchmore]

Angle of the dangle is directly proportional to the mass of the ***

The angle of dangle is directly proportional to the mass of the *** times the cube of the boob. Which means, the smaller the mass of the *** and the larger the cube of the boob the higher the angle of dangle.

This is Muchmores Thoerem.

 

[DFS]

@FordTechOne Can you give a vague (or detailed) comment on Keep It Dirty Offroad's lemon pursuit? He just documented on Instagram that Ford has replaced several of his steering components yet again and he clearly has a picture where he switched back to factory tires for the service as usual. Isn't this willful negligence on his service advisors part with the glaringly obvious evidence he's trying to game the system? Do you think his pursuit will end in some sort of buy back? If you can't comment I understand, this whole situation just screams fraud to me.

 

[FordTechOne]

@FordTechOne Can you give a vague (or detailed) comment on Keep It Dirty Offroad's lemon pursuit? He just documented on Instagram that Ford has replaced several of his steering components yet again and he clearly has a picture where he switched back to factory tires for the service as usual. Isn't this willful negligence on his service advisors part with the glaringly obvious evidence he's trying to game the system? Do you think his pursuit will end in some sort of buy back? If you can't comment I understand, this whole situation just screams fraud to me.

It’s warranty fraud, plain and simple. The guy is a con artist. He modified the vehicle, abused it, and now he wants the manufacturer to be accountable for it. All so he can get YouTube views. These trucks don’t have steering oscillation nor steering issues as he claims, he is responsible for the damage.