2020 Raptor New Short Block - Oil in Cylinders

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RE Mac

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Your original post. You stated that it started smoking out of the exhaust. The dealer found the oil to be 2.5 quarts low, which occurred over the course of 2800 miles. The smoke and cylinder damage are not a coincidence, they’re the result of a lack of lubrication.

Ford or the dealer? You implied that the dealer wanted to cause engine damage so they could do the warranty work. That’s warranty fraud. No reputable repair facility would tell a customer to hammer on a vehicle during an oil consumption test. It’s supposed to be driven normally and have the customer check the oil every 500 miles and all as necessary. Engine oil dye is for external leaks; will not detect internal engine issues such as piston ring damage or failed turbo seals.

The warranties are equivalent, not tiered. All manufacturers require that the consumer perform basic checks and services. One of those is periodically checking oil level.

You said earlier that the GM at this dealer has been understanding, have you escalated the current issue to him? They sold you the truck, they have equity here in getting it fixed.
You’re simply wrong in most of what you write. The dye was put in because of a known issue of the engine idling and putting too much oil pressure into the turbos, causing internal leaks within the turbos. The dye was to prove the leaks were happening within the turbos because its oil cooled. This was the solution directly from Ford. After running the truck for ~3k miles, they wanted me to come back to see if they could see the dye in the exhaust pipe from oil leaking INSIDE not outside of the exhaust system. Because of this, they found the cylinder issue because there was dye in both exhaust pipes at the back of the truck, along with some on the back bumper, which proved oil was exiting from inside the motor. At that time, ford instructed them to bore scope. This is a widely known issue for these trucks - the turbo issue. People have had to have their turbos back, including cats, replaced because of internal oil leaks saturating the cats making them unusable. Search it in this forum and you’ll find it.

2.5 quarts low one time will NOT cause damage to the cylinders but running it between 3k interval oil changes like this for 5 months might. No one told me verbally or in writing on the service ticket to check the oil every 500 miles — if ford corporate wanted this to happen, they would have ensured to tell me because if the dealer didn’t and something failed, that could be put back on the dealer. This said, we still aren’t sure what caused the issue. It could be the piston rings and a host of other things that weren’t installed correctly from the factory. Could simply be failed internal parts that got worse over time. The engine has never leaked oil outside of the engine or the turbos. Everything was internal.

I’ve spoken to the owner, the GM, service manager and everyone else there. This is the largest dealer in my state, so they know what they’re doing. I’ve also talked to the local Ford Parts & Service Rep. and he said everything had been done correctly and he apologized for how long it’s taken and for me to “hang in there.”

The GM has offered to buy the truck back as it sits but I don’t think it’s enough - $58k. Another problem is there isn’t any allocation for new raptors. This with the low offer isn’t sitting well with me.
 

FordTechOne

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You’re simply wrong in most of what you write. The dye was put in because of a known issue of the engine idling and putting too much oil pressure into the turbos, causing internal leaks within the turbos.
I’m wrong? Wow. First off, there is no “known issue” of “too much oil pressure” to the turbos causing “internal leaks”. Second, oil dye will not isolate a pressurized oil leak; it’s designed to find leaks on sealing surfaces.
The dye was to prove the leaks were happening within the turbos because its oil cooled. This was the solution directly from Ford. After running the truck for ~3k miles, they wanted me to come back to see if they could see the dye in the exhaust pipe from oil leaking INSIDE not outside of the exhaust system. Because of this, they found the cylinder issue because there was dye in both exhaust pipes at the back of the truck, along with some on the back bumper, which proved oil was exiting from inside the motor.
That’s entirely contradictory. So they wanted the dye to prove it was a turbo oil seal leak? Dye will not differentiate between a turbo oil seal and a damaged cylinder. Especially not after it’s been combusted or burned. Why would there by oil leaking on the outside of the exhaust?
At that time, ford instructed them to bore scope. This is a widely known issue for these trucks - the turbo issue. People have had to have their turbos back, including cats, replaced because of internal oil leaks saturating the cats making them unusable. Search it in this forum and you’ll find it.
There are no widespread turbo oil seal failures. Period.
2.5 quarts low one time will NOT cause damage to the cylinders but running it between 3k interval oil changes like this for 5 months might.
Really? So you designed the engine and can therefore confirm that statement? The normal system capacity is 6 quarts. The dipstick has an operating range of 1 quart below capacity at minimum. Running in almost half that will cause damage.
No one told me verbally or in writing on the service ticket to check the oil every 500 miles — if ford corporate wanted this to happen, they would have ensured to tell me because if the dealer didn’t and something failed, that could be put back on the dealer.
You already implied that the dealer was committing warranty fraud, why would you trust them for anything else?
The GM has offered to buy the truck back as it sits but I don’t think it’s enough - $58k. Another problem is there isn’t any allocation for new raptors. This with the low offer isn’t sitting well with me.
They’re the ones who can’t seem to properly diagnose or fix it. Remember they certified the truck; the corporate standards are stringent, but it doesn’t mean they actually followed them. If there is something they overlooked, that’s on them. At which point they should refund you the full purchase price if they can’t fix it or get it fixed in a timely manner.

Also note that Ford has a next level assembly policy under the factory powertrain warranty. Meaning if the short block is on backorder, they can go to the next level assembly, which would be the long block. I would bring this up with the GM, if the long block is readily available, you’ll get the truck back sooner and you won’t need to worry about the possibility of a cylinder head issue upon further tear down.
 
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Nimrod

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You’re simply wrong in most of what you write. The dye was put in because of a known issue of the engine idling and putting too much oil pressure into the turbos, causing internal leaks within the turbos. The dye was to prove the leaks were happening within the turbos because its oil cooled. This was the solution directly from Ford. After running the truck for ~3k miles, they wanted me to come back to see if they could see the dye in the exhaust pipe from oil leaking INSIDE not outside of the exhaust system. Because of this, they found the cylinder issue because there was dye in both exhaust pipes at the back of the truck, along with some on the back bumper, which proved oil was exiting from inside the motor. At that time, ford instructed them to bore scope. This is a widely known issue for these trucks - the turbo issue. People have had to have their turbos back, including cats, replaced because of internal oil leaks saturating the cats making them unusable. Search it in this forum and you’ll find it.

2.5 quarts low one time will NOT cause damage to the cylinders but running it between 3k interval oil changes like this for 5 months might. No one told me verbally or in writing on the service ticket to check the oil every 500 miles — if ford corporate wanted this to happen, they would have ensured to tell me because if the dealer didn’t and something failed, that could be put back on the dealer. This said, we still aren’t sure what caused the issue. It could be the piston rings and a host of other things that weren’t installed correctly from the factory. Could simply be failed internal parts that got worse over time. The engine has never leaked oil outside of the engine or the turbos. Everything was internal.

I’ve spoken to the owner, the GM, service manager and everyone else there. This is the largest dealer in my state, so they know what they’re doing. I’ve also talked to the local Ford Parts & Service Rep. and he said everything had been done correctly and he apologized for how long it’s taken and for me to “hang in there.”

The GM has offered to buy the truck back as it sits but I don’t think it’s enough - $58k. Another problem is there isn’t any allocation for new raptors. This with the low offer isn’t sitting well with me.

Don’t pay any attention to fordtechone. He thinks any problem a ford has must be the owners fault. No way ford could ever engineer something that’s not perfect. You musta screwed it up somehow. Just ignore him. He obviously has a hard time with reading comprehension. He’s not here to help he’s here to protect fords ineptitude and make it your fault.
 
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Space Ghost

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Don’t pay any attention to fordtechone. He thinks any problem a ford has must be the owners fault. No way ford could ever engineer something that’s not perfect. You musta screwed it up somehow. Just ignore him. He obviously has a hard time with reading comprehension. He’s not here to help he’s here to protect fords ineptitude and make it your fault.
Hes been insanely helpful to the forum and has helped others and myself solve a lot of problems and gives out a ton of info for our trucks. I dont see how anyone can find malice in that.

Unless you own a Toyota, then youre on your own
 

Oldfart

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Don’t pay any attention to fordtechone. He thinks any problem a ford has must be the owners fault. No way ford could ever engineer something that’s not perfect. You musta screwed it up somehow. Just ignore him. He obviously has a hard time with reading comprehension. He’s not here to help he’s here to protect fords ineptitude and make it your fault.
Yes, screw that FordTechOne jerk! :ehcapt: Just because he is incredibly knowledgeable and goes out of his way to help tons of people in here, including myself, is no reason he should act like he knows stuff! He gets paid HUGE money by Ford just to be a member in here. I read on the internet that he gets paid $1,500 for every response he posts. I also read that he is now a paid influencer for Bud Light!!!:shakehead: What a jackwad he is!
 
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OP
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Don’t pay any attention to fordtechone. He thinks any problem a ford has must be the owners fault. No way ford could ever engineer something that’s not perfect. You musta screwed it up somehow. Just ignore him. He obviously has a hard time with reading comprehension. He’s not here to help he’s here to protect fords ineptitude and make it your fault.
I’m sure he helps people but in this case, he’s just plain wrong. I had zero liability in causing this issue, it was 100% fords. Since this started, Ford has admitted to me they have LOTS of 2020 made vehicles because of covid. This is unfortunately one of those instances.
 

FordTechOne

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I’m sure he helps people but in this case, he’s just plain wrong. I had zero liability in causing this issue, it was 100% fords. Since this started, Ford has admitted to me they have LOTS of 2020 made vehicles because of covid. This is unfortunately one of those instances.
You’ve repeatedly made claims about “known issues” and “widespread problems” that not only don’t exist, but are not even mechanically possible. The engine cannot “put too much oil into the turbos”, even if oil pump relief valve hung open, the oil pressure to the turbo oil feed lines is regulated.

As far as your Parts and Service zone manager source, those are non-technical people. They’re sales consultants; they do not get involved in technical information or repairs, nor are they trained to.
As someone mentioned, I shouldn’t have to check the oil in a $100k gasoline truck with less than 50k miles. If they would have told me to check it, I would have but they didn’t.
You keep claiming you have “zero liability” yet it’s right in the Owner’s Manual that it’s owner’s responsibility to check the oil level. Nobody is required to “tell you” anything when it’s literally provided to you in print.
 
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