‘24 Raptors and the CAI Dilemma

[Relentles0ne]

I think they changed some bit of plastic back where the Cobb bracket goes for 2024s and on so it’s only compatible with 2021-2023 trucks. The stock scoop is made of especially soft cheese. I hope whatever the change with 24s is it’s because they beefed it up.

Yup, I was just going to mention the scoop brackets that Cobb sells doesn’t work for 24 because of the slight hood change. So there is an AFE scoop you can buy which I did and I’m going to test out. As far as @Subaruski comment take a listen to @Waterfowler41 video here:

I think it shows a good intake sound difference with the Corsa he installed and of course an open lid CAI will be even more pronounced then that.

@Nex once again we are talking about ‘24s here, there’s a bunch more that you can do with 2022 and prior raptors like also adding 1040cc injectors.

I’m focusing on 2024 because there is little we have out there at the moment although I do feel things are coming out monthly and I’m hoping we get a good thread going dedicated to new 2024 performance mod drops

 

[MDJAK]

@FordTechOne

I read, and I'm no mechanic, that the engine computer is what it is, it's programmed to suck in a metered amount of air to mix with the fuel. Thus, those fancy doodads do not do anything unless something else is fundamentally changed as @Nex said.

They do look cool, though, but who the heck opens their hood to look.

 

[Relentles0ne]

@FordTechOne

I read, and I'm no mechanic, that the engine computer is what it is, it's programmed to suck in a metered amount of air to mix with the fuel. Thus, those fancy doodads do not do anything unless something else is fundamentally changed as @Nex said.

They do look cool, though, but who the heck opens their hood to look.

I love working on my truck and seeing under the hood of vehicles.

Again not true as you stated you are not a mechanic, you only “read” something somewhere that told you something that fit a bias for how you want your truck. There’s a lot of context your missing in that statement about “metered air.”
For those of us who are speaking with tuners, mechanics and engineers, we know it does provide a benefit and supports better fuel mileage. It’s “cleaner” and “colder” which helps support the health of how the fuel and air mix and therefore provides better performance.
Many of us are doing more than just CAI.

 

[BigBlue20]

Why are there never any real figures showing the truth about performance gains ( HP and/or Torq) with different CAIs? Easy enough to do. Bolt on, put on Dyno, record and publish. Intake sound does not = more power. But if it makes you feel better, it’s your $$! Example: back in the day (70’s) we used to drill holes in the scoops on Firebird T/As. All we got was more noise, and dirt & water into our air cleaners. Besides, on most vehicles, the area on the hoods where scoops are located, are low pressure areas with no perceivable air pressure increases. If it was easy to pick up (and prove) actual HP gains, in today’s super competitive world, wouldn’t OEMs spend a few bucks and change intake systems to make and advertise aditional power? Think about it. Like I said, it’s your money, spend it as you see fit. Flame suit is on.

 

[taquitos]

Why are there never any real figures showing the truth about performance gains ( HP and/or Torq) with different CAIs? Easy enough to do. Bolt on, put on Dyno, record and publish. Intake sound does not = more power. But if it makes you feel better, it’s your $$! Example: back in the day (70’s) we used to drill holes in the scoops on Firebird T/As. All we got was more noise, and dirt & water into our air cleaners. Besides, on most vehicles, the area on the hoods where scoops are located, are low pressure areas with no perceivable air pressure increases. If it was easy to pick up (and prove) actual HP gains, in today’s super competitive world, wouldn’t OEMs spend a few bucks and change intake systems to make and advertise aditional power? Think about it. Like I said, it’s your money, spend it as you see fit. Flame suit is on.

For me swapping the scoop was more about lack of power loss as opposed to any power gains. Under perfect circumstances sure it doesn’t do anything. When the stock scoop starts to get squeezed in, a stiffer scoop certainly prevents power loss. There’s info on this here https://cobbtuning.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/PRS/pages/2739634299/Gen3+Raptor+Issues:+Intake+Collapse. When the scoop collapses a power loss is very evident. When the scoop begins to close up but hasn’t collapsed the waste gate begins to close beyond its nominal position. I don’t have a tune on my truck and the scoop collapsed.

 

[New recaros]

I don’t think the scope was the problem as the R looks to have the same scoop. We cut out a bit of plastic shroud in front of the scoop on my tuned 19 Similar to the Cood design. My 21 already had the redesign by Ford. Just look at the Coob shroud as it has a web of plastic instead of being all sealed like stock. They identified the root cause but sold brackets just for profit center.

 

[taquitos]

I don’t think the scope was the problem as the R looks to have the same scoop. We cut out a bit of plastic shroud in front of the scoop on my tuned 19 Similar to the Cood design. My 21 already had the redesign by Ford. Just look at the Coob shroud as it has a web of plastic instead of being all sealed like stock. They identified the root cause but sold brackets just for profit center.

The scoop is different on the R. But on my 22 the plastic shroud in front of the scoop was already cut back. That was a rolling change that occurred at some point between 21 and 22. At the end of the day the problem is they just reused the F150 intake and, I would guess, called it good on testing because the standard F150 is tested extensively. However, the Raptor puts out 50 hp more than the 3.5 F150. It would seem that ate up pretty much the entire factor of safety on the scoop. The rubberized front lower portion of the scoop is just pretty flimsy really. I'm sure it's so close that on a good portion of trucks out there it's entirely fine, but when there's one there's always more. I don't really think the little bracket is the solution, though. A scoop that's more rigid is really the way.

 

[New recaros]

The scoop is different on the R. But on my 22 the plastic shroud in front of the scoop was already cut back. That was a rolling change that occurred at some point between 21 and 22. At the end of the day the problem is they just reused the F150 intake and, I would guess, called it good on testing because the standard F150 is tested extensively. However, the Raptor puts out 50 hp more than the 3.5 F150. It would seem that ate up pretty much the entire factor of safety on the scoop. The rubberized front lower portion of the scoop is just pretty flimsy really. I'm sure it's so close that on a good portion of trucks out there it's entirely fine, but when there's one there's always more. I don't really think the little bracket is the solution, though. A scoop that's more rigid is really the way.

You want a more rigid scoop, why? Its collapsing? Why? To much vacuum, why? Restricted air flow, hood smashing it, wrong materials. What solutions did Cobb and Ford come up with? They reduced the air flow restriction in front of the scoop which reduced the pressure loss.

 

[taquitos]

You want a more rigid scoop, why? Its collapsing? Why? To much vacuum, why? Restricted air flow, hood smashing it, wrong materials. What solutions did Cobb and Ford come up with? They reduced the air flow restriction in front of the scoop which reduced the pressure loss.

My point is even with the shroud reduced to help with restriction it’s apparently still possible. Again, this happened on a bone stock truck that already had Ford’s solution. Any time you have a moving fluid it will create a localized pressure differential that’s a function of flow rate. Bernoulli’s principle. Flow rate is highest in the scoop so anywhere in the scoop will be lower pressure than before or after the scoop. This acts to squeeze the scoop shut. A more rigid scoop resists that squeeze better. I could have put a fresh stock scoop on, but if it happened once it’s bound to happen again so opted not to do that.

 

[Relentles0ne]

My point is even with the shroud reduced to help with restriction it’s apparently still possible. Again, this happened on a bone stock truck that already had Ford’s solution. Any time you have a moving fluid it will create a localized pressure differential that’s a function of flow rate. Bernoulli’s principle. Flow rate is highest in the scoop so anywhere in the scoop will be lower pressure than before or after the scoop. This acts to squeeze the scoop shut. A more rigid scoop resists that squeeze better. I could have put a fresh stock scoop on, but if it happened once it’s bound to happen again so opted not to do that.

Man this turned into a heck of a healthy discussion. I agree that the scoop is culpable for these trucks and their loss of power and in speaking with several tuners they’re seeing the same thing. Crushed / weak / pinched scoops and I’m sure there’s a ton of environmental factors that affect this as well. But nonetheless, breathability and restriction on a twin turbo truck is what we are all looking to improve, maintain or prevent. I would imagine it matters less with the open top CAIs but I’m def interested in seeing the AFE DAS scoop I ordered for my ‘24 and comparing it to my stock to see how rigid it is and how much more open it is. It might be minor but I think all of this is apart of the fun in discovering what works and what doesn’t. Again even if it’s just improving mileage then it’s a helpful support worth investing in. IMO. But everyone has their right to choose what path they wish that confirms their bias. However, there is data out there and not hard to find by just googling around these improvements and so while everyone behind their steering wheel can claim “they know it doesn’t improve or do anything” none of y’all got a dyno at home or are actually testing for the numbers.