Tuning Noob - Whipple Charged - General Questions

[AZDezRat]

First, yes, I know how to search. So many tuner threads, it’d just be easier to ask my questions. Answers should be brief I think…

I recently picked up a ‘13, that came highly modified. But, I got it from a dealer (something I never do if I can avoid, but it was such a damn good deal, I had to!), so I have no access to the orig owner, and therefore have very little info on the truck.

What I do know:

26k mi
Whipple Supercharger
Has the big heat exchanger w/dual fans
Has a 3.375” Pulley
Has what appears to be the Whipple supplied CAI.
Has ARH headers & full system
Does not have cats
May have aftermarket cams. It lopes pretty good @ idle. No way to know as far as I can tell…
Could have other internal mods, but, no idea.
No idea on the gearing. The speedo is off by about 6.5%.
Has 37’s

Now, the truck HAD a tuner associated with it, as the SCT manual and little CD was in the console. But, no tuner. So…

A couple things. The thing has loads of power. It’s an fing beast. So, I definitely am not looking for more, lol. And, it runs and drives about as perfect as one could hope. Throttle response, feel, shifting, etc is spot on. So, what’s the rub? Well, the best mileage I’ve been able to get with it is 10mpg, all freeway. Typically getting about 8mpg around town. I don’t have a super heavy foot either really. And I’ve babied it just to see what I can get out of it, as far as mpg. And, regardless, best I can do is 10.

So, I’m hoping to get myself an ‘87 octane economy’ and ‘87 octane towing’ tune, and would definitely like to retain the tune I already have.

Questions:

If I get a tuner (SCT, or whatever), and get a couple emailed tunes, can I save/keep my current tune if/when I want to go back to it?

What kind of mpg gain can I reasonably expect to get from an ‘economy’ tune?

Is it possible that the existing tune has imbedded in it somewhere/somehow, who provided it, and maybe even what mods the truck has?

Should I be looking at an actual custom Dyno tune, since I don’t 100% know what’s been done to the motor (cams, etc)? If so, would they be able to whip me up an ‘economy’ tune? Or, do they just focus on max power?

Is there any real difference between the SCT X4 and Livewire TS+, except for the touch screen? I think I’d prefer the TS+, so I can use it’s gauge functions (no boost gauge in this truck).

Any general advice is appreciated on this topic.

 

[MTF]

I can tell you right now that 87 octane is a "No Go"!!!
91 is the lowest you can get away without pre-detonation and miss-fires.
Having said that, depending on the setup some have been able to remove a lot of timing to run 87 safely.
You will lose a lot of HP and not really gain any mpg, but you'll save $5-$8 at the pump per fill up.
8 and 10 mpgs is about right for 37" tires, in the hot summer months.
The colder it gets you'll see 1 to 2 mpgs more, if you baby it but it's really hard to drive like that.

Best I get is 12.7 on the highway BUT that is fall and spring (no winter blend gas) months and no hills and not getting into boost.

That does suck that someone took the hand held device out of the console.
My suggestion is to write down the serial # of the Whipple and your Vin # and give Whipple a call to see if it's the Whipple Tune and what injectors and Throttle Body was sold with it.
They may even tell you who it was sold to, that would make it real easy to track down who Tune it, if it wasn't Whipple.

If it has the Livernois cams don't even bother looking for email Tunes.
Doing Tunes with Livernois cams usually requires to get Livernois involved, not to many Tuners want to bother with that.
Without knowing the exact mods your gonna waste a lot of money and time doing email Tunes with data logging.

The speedo should only be off by about 2 mph "if" the revaluations per mile (Tire size) was set correctly.
That is if the Tuner enabled that function in the SCT Tune.

Having a boost gauge is just eye candy, if you really need to have it.
With headers and no cats you're right around 9, 10 psi. max!!!
I'm, at 10.5 to 11 psi. because I'm running full stock exhaust.

You can get a manual boost gauge setup (not an electrical one) from Whipple, it's best way to go if really need it.

I use my Android phone with BT dongle and the Torque Pro App.

Good luck

 

[AZDezRat]

I can tell you right now that 87 octane is a "No Go"!!!
91 is the lowest you can get away without pre-detonation and miss-fires.
Having said that, depending on the setup some have been able to remove a lot of timing to run 87 safely.
You will lose a lot of HP and not really gain any mpg, but you'll save $5-$8 at the pump per fill up.
8 and 10 mpgs is about right for 37" tires, in the hot summer months.
The colder it gets you'll see 1 to 2 mpgs more, if you baby it but it's really hard to drive like that.

Best I get is 12.7 on the highway BUT that is fall and spring (no winter blend gas) months and no hills and not getting into boost.

That does suck that someone took the hand held device out of the console.
My suggestion is to write down the serial # of the Whipple and your Vin # and give Whipple a call to see if it's the Whipple Tune and what injectors and Throttle Body was sold with it.
They may even tell you who it was sold to, that would make it real easy to track down who Tune it, if it wasn't Whipple.

If it has the Livernois cams don't even bother looking for email Tunes.
Doing Tunes with Livernois cams usually requires to get Livernois involved, not to many Tuners want to bother with that.
Without knowing the exact mods your gonna waste a lot of money and time doing email Tunes with data logging.

The speedo should only be off by about 2 mph "if" the revaluations per mile (Tire size) was set correctly.
That is if the Tuner enabled that function in the SCT Tune.

Having a boost gauge is just eye candy, if you really need to have it.
With headers and no cats you're right around 9, 10 psi. max!!!
I'm, at 10.5 to 11 psi. because I'm running full stock exhaust.

You can get a manual boost gauge setup (not an electrical one) from Whipple, it's best way to go if really need it.

I use my Android phone with BT dongle and the Torque Pro App.

Good luck

Thanks for all the info!

As for the 87/pinging, won’t the computer retard timing to preclude detonation? Or, might the tune prevent this? I’ve had several boosted cars & ran 87 without issue. Of course, they make more power on higher octane fuel, but I’ve never noticed any pinging. With this truck, I have felt/heard some pinging @ low rpm (40mph in 6th, under load), but just shift down & good to go. Besides that she seems to be plenty happy on 87. But, maybe I’m wrong about this?

I suppose if 8-10mpg is normal for a supercharged 1st gen w/37’s, then it is what it is & I’ll just come to terms with it, lol.

Good idea on contacting whipple, I’ll definitely do that!

As for the cams… if I pull a valve cover, might there be some way to ID the cam? Will an aftermarket cam have an etched label or part number or brand name or some other identifying feature?

The speedo is off by 5-6mph @ 75mph, so it definitely was not set correctly…

I have a BT OBD dongle/scanner with OBD Fusion app on my iPhone. Didn’t think of that. Was just curious on boost numbers. I’ll just use that. Thanks.

 

[MurderedOutSVT]

I can tell you right now that 87 octane is a "No Go"!!!
91 is the lowest you can get away without pre-detonation and miss-fires.
Having said that, depending on the setup some have been able to remove a lot of timing to run 87 safely.
You will lose a lot of HP and not really gain any mpg, but you'll save $5-$8 at the pump per fill up.
8 and 10 mpgs is about right for 37" tires, in the hot summer months.
The colder it gets you'll see 1 to 2 mpgs more, if you baby it but it's really hard to drive like that.

Best I get is 12.7 on the highway BUT that is fall and spring (no winter blend gas) months and no hills and not getting into boost.

That does suck that someone took the hand held device out of the console.
My suggestion is to write down the serial # of the Whipple and your Vin # and give Whipple a call to see if it's the Whipple Tune and what injectors and Throttle Body was sold with it.
They may even tell you who it was sold to, that would make it real easy to track down who Tune it, if it wasn't Whipple.

If it has the Livernois cams don't even bother looking for email Tunes.
Doing Tunes with Livernois cams usually requires to get Livernois involved, not to many Tuners want to bother with that.
Without knowing the exact mods your gonna waste a lot of money and time doing email Tunes with data logging.

The speedo should only be off by about 2 mph "if" the revaluations per mile (Tire size) was set correctly.
That is if the Tuner enabled that function in the SCT Tune.

Having a boost gauge is just eye candy, if you really need to have it.
With headers and no cats you're right around 9, 10 psi. max!!!
I'm, at 10.5 to 11 psi. because I'm running full stock exhaust.

You can get a manual boost gauge setup (not an electrical one) from Whipple, it's best way to go if really need it.

I use my Android phone with BT dongle and the Torque Pro App.

Good luck

Yup... @MTF nailed it. Running a DS-1 Procharger and it all sounds the same

 

[MTF]

Thanks for all the info!

As for the 87/pinging, won’t the computer retard timing to preclude detonation? Or, might the tune prevent this? I’ve had several boosted cars & ran 87 without issue. Of course, they make more power on higher octane fuel, but I’ve never noticed any pinging. With this truck, I have felt/heard some pinging @ low rpm (40mph in 6th, under load), but just shift down & good to go. Besides that she seems to be plenty happy on 87. But, maybe I’m wrong about this?

I suppose if 8-10mpg is normal for a supercharged 1st gen w/37’s, then it is what it is & I’ll just come to terms with it, lol.

Good idea on contacting whipple, I’ll definitely do that!

As for the cams… if I pull a valve cover, might there be some way to ID the cam? Will an aftermarket cam have an etched label or part number or brand name or some other identifying feature?

The speedo is off by 5-6mph @ 75mph, so it definitely was not set correctly…

I have a BT OBD dongle/scanner with OBD Fusion app on my iPhone. Didn’t think of that. Was just curious on boost numbers. I’ll just use that. Thanks.

Yes the PCM will pull Timing but if it's set too advanced in the Tune which it should be, it can not pull enough.
There are two knock sensors that will tell the PCM to remove power if they feel knocking.

Hook up your OBDII reader and see if you already have misfiring.
I'm guessing you don't have the check engine light on or you would have said something already.

If you can find your Tune and get it on a SCT Tuner you can remove or add Timing.
Unfortunately, you can only back up the Tune that's on the truck as stock Tune on the hand held device.
And then copy it to a computer for safe keeping.
Not sure if SCT could or would help you with making it a editable again to load back on the SCT hand held device so you can adjust the Timing, rev per mile, gear ratio and tire psi.

Livernois is the only company that made a cam for the Raptor, you can call them and see if there's a way to identify them.

6.2 RAPTOR CAMS | LPP803123 | Livernois Motorsports

POWERSTORM 6.2L FORD TRUCK CAMSHAFT KIT

www.livernoismotorsports.com

 

[AZDezRat]

Yes the PCM will pull Timing but if it's set too advanced in the Tune which it should be, it can not pull enough.
There are two knock sensors that will tell the PCM to remove power if they feel knocking.

Hook up your OBDII reader and see if you already have misfiring.
I'm guessing you don't have the check engine light on or you would have said something already.

If you can find your Tune and get it on a SCT Tuner you can remove or add Timing.
Unfortunately, you can only back up the Tune that's on the truck as stock Tune on the hand held device.
And then copy it to a computer for safe keeping.
Not sure if SCT could or would help you with making it a editable again to load back on the SCT hand held device so you can adjust the Timing, rev per mile, gear ratio and tire psi.

Livernois is the only company that made a cam for the Raptor, you can call them and see if there's a way to identify them.

6.2 RAPTOR CAMS | LPP803123 | Livernois Motorsports

POWERSTORM 6.2L FORD TRUCK CAMSHAFT KIT

www.livernoismotorsports.com

Thank you sir for all the insight. It’s appreciated.

 

[Skubik]

What's up AZDezRat
What did you end up doing? I just caught up on all the posts related to your original question. All great responses too just wondered if you ended up making any changes.

My situation is pretty much like yours except I met the owner who sold me the truck and although he didn't know a thing about what he had, the truck did come with a thick binder with everything ever done to the truck down to the decals. With the binder I was also able to track down the original owner who did all the mods you mentioned at Livernois and was happy I bought the truck and answered all my questions.
I do have stage two Livernois cams on my truck but since purchased I've switched the Livernois tuner for an SCT, added Injector dynamics 1050cc injectors, 8 rib pulley conversion, bigger fuel pump, and a ton of suspension for off-road, and any other mods. Switching to SCT and going to my local shop was way easier than dealing with Michigan based Livernois. It sounds like your truck is running damn good. I get 11-13mpg depending on driving conditions. Your 37's will make a decent impact on your MPg's and it's why I've stuck with 35" but mainly I don't really need the 37's for the off-road events I partake in. Enjoy your truck, it sounds badass, I would say if it ain't broke don't fix it but I'm with you on wanting to know what's all done to your truck and wanting more control with having your own tune. Hope things worked out, again I was just curious.

 

[Canuck714]

Just adding my 2 cents here regarding the tune and 87oct. Dont Do It...

The small amount of money you save at the pump 87 vs 91 is $5-8.00 per fill up. Are you really worried about saving 5 bucks and potentially putting a hole in a piston? The timing can only pull so much out to compensate for the knock and would make the truck run poorly, likely causing you to burn that $5.00 in extra fuel..lol
You will hate a canned tune that comes pre loaded on the SCT device. You need a JDM, Whipple or find the tuner that built the truck for a good working tune. It sounds like your truck already has that, so I doubt you will make it better. Also, I doubt Whipple or JDM would even write an 87 tune for a supercharged truck. Its counter productive.

As for the MPG. Im guessing you are reading the Lie-O-Meter for the instant MPG. It wont be accurate if the speedo is off. The MPG is based off wheel rotations and fuel used. So if you have a bigger tire and no gears or correction factor in the tune, the computer sees your big tires turning slower than the amount of fuel you are actually burning. You are probably getting 11 and change if you hand calculate.
I was alway 11.4-11.7
@AZDezRat let us know how its going

 

[AZDezRat]

Hey, thanks! I ended up just accepting the fact that I need to run 91. Painful these days, but yeah, I git tired of babying it to avoid pinging. And, I did not rely on the onboard computer for mpg - I calculated it myself. But, turns out, it's pretty spot-on, even though the speedo is off by ~7%.

 

[MTF]

The speedometer is off for all stock Raptors by 2-3 mph, doesn't even matter what mods have been done.

A little FYI, I find keeping the fuel and injectors at peak performance, you need to be vigilant at using...
Especially in the hot summer months!!! And I only run 93 octane and still need to do this.

Star-Tron fuel Enzyme Fuel Treatment

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001VMNHX8/?tag=fordraptorforum-20

And
Chevron Techron Complete Fuel Treatment

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000CCOL3I/?tag=fordraptorforum-20