The Tune by SVC

[fjcoop]

With this tune when I use the factory off road feature to change the shift points etc. will the tune still work as intended

Bump

 

[Hoverp]

Good question !

 

[svc]

With this tune when I use the factory off road feature to change the shift points etc. will the tune still work as intended

Sorry for missing this. In offroad mode the tune will still perform to how it has adapted your driving style. Holding gears longer, more power, better shift points. Off road mode alters how the truck performs but the same key features will still exceed factory settings

-Jeff

 

[zer0gravity]

Just had a follow up to a call I had with Jeff, as I'm buying the tune.

Jeff had said that the stock CAI (with a drop in filter) was better and outperform the AFE / AIR RAID. Can anyone follow up on this as I was pretty set on getting an AFE Stage 2. Just want to make sure I'm trying to get the best outcome.

Thanks!

 

[Ruger]

ZG, that is an exceptionally simplistic assessment. Let me explain.

The first thing to understand is that no intake will flow more air than the engine demands. Period. The engine is a pump, and as long as an intake (factory or aftermarket) will flow the air volume called for by the engine then the engine will get all the air it needs. It can't get more.

The second thing to understand is that all Ford trucks use all of the same intake components, with the exception of the EcoBoost which uses some but not all of the same parts. I did a part number comparison several years ago, and the 3.7L six cylinder, the 5.0L, and the 6.2L all use the exact same intake parts. Your fire breathing 6.2. is trying to breath through the same intake as the 3.7L. No kidding. It saves Ford money.

Two things should be obvious now:
- At normal throttle settings - day-to-day driving, in other words - the 6.2L is probably getting all the intake air it needs. It does. There is a formula that enables you to calculate the intake air requirements of an engine based upon displacement, compression ratio, redline, etc. Ford engineers are professional engineers, and that formula is nothing new to them. I did the calculation myself and compared the results with the airflow spec K&N provides for their drop-in filter. The filter flows more than the 6.2L requires. But that's the filter only.
- It should also be obvious that the peak airflow requirements of the 6.2L far, far exceed that of the 3.7L V6. Does the factory intake components (snorkel, air box, hose, etc.) flow THAT much? I don't know.

But I do know that the factory components have one significant restriction - the diameter of the tube that runs from the air box to the plenum. The diameter of that tube necks down to a precise diameter right where the airflow sensor is. It must. The function of the airflow sensor depends on it. The aftermarket AIRAID tube, for example, is designed to use the factory airflow sensor, and therefore MUST have the same inside diameter at the sensor as the factory. So why buy it?

Several reasons:
- The AIRAID filter is huge. It has more than twice as many pleats as the drop-in K&N filter, the surface area is therefore far greater, and the filter will flow more air. This might not make much difference for every day driving around, but the 6.2L is a large displacement high performance engine and at peak output needs a LOT more air than the 3.7L V6 that uses the same factory intake components.
- The AIRAID tube has no corrugations like the factory tube does. Air therefore must flow through the AIRAID tube with less friction and less turbulence. (Imagine if your aftermarket cat-back exhaust had corrugated exhaust tubes.)
- I am pretty sure that AIRAID is unique in that the company can provide dyno run charts that show a curve for the fuel/air mixture in addition to the usual bhp and torque curves. The chart they sent me for the 6.7L showed that their intake kept the mixture measurably closer to the stoichiometric optimum ratio than the factory parts. That's remarkable, and it convinced me to buy.

All that said, the AIRAID still breathes through the factory snorkel because the bottom of the factory air box and snorkel are both retained. Pull the snorkel some day and look at it. It's a poor design indeed. There are protrusions and sharp edges throughout the design. I spent some time with a Dremel and rounded all of the sharp edges and smoothed the airflow through it. A simple job that Ford should have done for the 6.2L application in the Raptor, but they didn't want to have a separate part number. If you need proof that the Ford intake is a study in shaving production costs and not designed with an eye toward performance, examination of that one part will convince you.

I have an extensive write-up on my installation of my AIRAID intake here:
http://www.fordraptorforum.com/f24/airraid-installation-2011-6-2l-3085/
Many have commented on it favorably. I hope it will be of use to you.

 

[IronRakMike]

ZG, that is an exceptionally simplistic assessment. Let me explain.

The first thing to understand is that no intake will flow more air than the engine demands. Period. The engine is a pump, and as long as an intake (factory or aftermarket) will flow the air volume called for by the engine then the engine will get all the air it needs. It can't get more.

The second thing to understand is that all Ford trucks use all of the same intake components, with the exception of the EcoBoost which uses some but not all of the same parts. I did a part number comparison several years ago, and the 3.7L six cylinder, the 5.0L, and the 6.2L all use the exact same intake parts. Your fire breathing 6.2. is trying to breath through the same intake as the 3.7L. No kidding. It saves Ford money.

Two things should be obvious now:
- At normal throttle settings - day-to-day driving, in other words - the 6.2L is probably getting all the intake air it needs. It does. There is a formula that enables you to calculate the intake air requirements of an engine based upon displacement, compression ratio, redline, etc. Ford engineers are professional engineers, and that formula is nothing new to them. I did the calculation myself and compared the results with the airflow spec K&N provides for their drop-in filter. The filter flows more than the 6.2L requires. But that's the filter only.
- It should also be obvious that the peak airflow requirements of the 6.2L far, far exceed that of the 3.7L V6. Does the factory intake components (snorkel, air box, hose, etc.) flow THAT much? I don't know.

But I do know that the factory components have one significant restriction - the diameter of the tube that runs from the air box to the plenum. The diameter of that tube necks down to a precise diameter right where the airflow sensor is. It must. The function of the airflow sensor depends on it. The aftermarket AIRAID tube, for example, is designed to use the factory airflow sensor, and therefore MUST have the same inside diameter at the sensor as the factory. So why buy it?

Several reasons:
- The AIRAID filter is huge. It has more than twice as many pleats as the drop-in K&N filter, the surface area is therefore far greater, and the filter will flow more air. This might not make much difference for every day driving around, but the 6.2L is a large displacement high performance engine and at peak output needs a LOT more air than the 3.7L V6 that uses the same factory intake components.
- The AIRAID tube has no corrugations like the factory tube does. Air therefore must flow through the AIRAID tube with less friction and less turbulence. (Imagine if your aftermarket cat-back exhaust had corrugated exhaust tubes.)
- I am pretty sure that AIRAID is unique in that the company can provide dyno run charts that show a curve for the fuel/air mixture in addition to the usual bhp and torque curves. The chart they sent me for the 6.7L showed that their intake kept the mixture measurably closer to the stoichiometric optimum ratio than the factory parts. That's remarkable, and it convinced me to buy.

All that said, the AIRAID still breathes through the factory snorkel because the bottom of the factory air box and snorkel are both retained. Pull the snorkel some day and look at it. It's a poor design indeed. There are protrusions and sharp edges throughout the design. I spent some time with a Dremel and rounded all of the sharp edges and smoothed the airflow through it. A simple job that Ford should have done for the 6.2L application in the Raptor, but they didn't want to have a separate part number. If you need proof that the Ford intake is a study in shaving production costs and not designed with an eye toward performance, examination of that one part will convince you.

I have an extensive write-up on my installation of my AIRAID intake here:
http://www.fordraptorforum.com/f24/airraid-installation-2011-6-2l-3085/
Many have commented on it favorably. I hope it will be of use to you.

Damn good explanation man, someone ought to sticky this as you did an exceptional job at explaining the "how".

 

[Ruger]

Thank you for your service to our great and free nation, IRM.

 

[Gsteve]

Damn good explanation man, someone ought to sticky this as you did an exceptional job at explaining the "how".

im not trying to be a ass... but that all means nothing if is still doesn't make more power. Maybe the factory one is designed to handle what the 6.2 needs and the 5.0 and 3.7 get the same parts but don't require the flow so no harm to them. This is pretty much proven as there is almost no power to be gained by a cai. If the stock system was designed for a 3.7 there woukd surely be a huge gain by installing a system designed for a 6.2 , there isn't. It's ibviously a system that works for a 6.2 and works fine on a 5.0 or 3.7 as well
Every dyno shop i have spoken to says get a cai if you like the sound and maybe a cpl more WOT hp and the lose of some low end torq. Sure you can gain something with a specific tune , but most of it is from the tune it's self.

 

[Ruger]

im not trying to be a ass... but that all means nothing if is still doesn't make more power.

That is only true if your only objective is more power.

But suppose you are a serious off-roader and you also have an interest in good filtration. It ought to be obvious that a filter with more surface area will not clog with dust as readily as a filter with less surface area.

Suppose that, like me, you hope to keep your expensive super-truck on the road as long as possible. In that case a bigger filter with a multi-layer filtration medium vs. a single layer of filter paper ought to be of more than passing interest.

Or suppose you're just cheap and prefer to clean and reuse a filter rather than buy a new one ever 10,000 miles.

Really, there's a lot more here than just "more power."

 

[Gsteve]

That is only true if your only objective is more power.

But suppose you are a serious off-roader and you also have an interest in good filtration. It ought to be obvious that a filter with more surface area will not clog with dust as readily as a filter with less surface area.

Suppose that, like me, you hope to keep your expensive super-truck on the road as long as possible. In that case a bigger filter with a multi-layer filtration medium vs. a single layer of filter paper ought to be of more than passing interest.

Or suppose you're just cheap and prefer to clean and reuse a filter rather than buy a new one ever 10,000 miles.

Really, there's a lot more here than just "more power."

Then a better filter system is certainly what you would need....