Power Steering Issues/Ford Dealer being dumb??

[ATXraptor75]

So my gen2 Raptor has been making some groaning noises comes from the power steering when at a complete stop and while moving if you turn the wheel.

I took it into my local dealer in Austin and asked them to take a look while changing oil/general maintenance.

they came back saying the driver side bolt that holds the power steering linkage up is not long enough due to the fact I have an aftermarket bumper installed.

I installed the svc smurf bumper myself a while back and as I think most of you know reinstalling these 2 bolts for the power steering is an absolute pain because
1) you have to torque them like all hell
2) they screw into some rubber fitting so there’s no real indication of when they’re all the way in.

Ford is telling me they don’t want to touch it because they’re concerned it can overstrain the bolt and/or cause other issues.

they advised on getting a longer bolt but couldn’t tell me anything in terms of a real commendation

I asked them to advise On how much further they thought I needed to screw it in and they said 1/4 in.

does this seem like an accurate diagnosis?

Has anyone else had this issue?

These guys at ford seem very questionable....

 

[FordTechOne]

So my gen2 Raptor has been making some groaning noises comes from the power steering when at a complete stop and while moving if you turn the wheel.

I took it into my local dealer in Austin and asked them to take a look while changing oil/general maintenance.

they came back saying the driver side bolt that holds the power steering linkage up is not long enough due to the fact I have an aftermarket bumper installed.

I installed the svc smurf bumper myself a while back and as I think most of you know reinstalling these 2 bolts for the power steering is an absolute pain because
1) you have to torque them like all hell
2) they screw into some rubber fitting so there’s no real indication of when they’re all the way in.

Ford is telling me they don’t want to touch it because they’re concerned it can overstrain the bolt and/or cause other issues.

they advised on getting a longer bolt but couldn’t tell me anything in terms of a real commendation

I asked them to advise On how much further they thought I needed to screw it in and they said 1/4 in.

does this seem like an accurate diagnosis?

Has anyone else had this issue?

These guys at ford seem very questionable....

If the aftermarket bumper attaches between the rack bolts and rack, you're going to need longer bolts to ensure that the bolt is all the way through the bushing/subframe. These trucks are heavy, and any loose mounting fasteners/improper mounting is going to cause the rack to move/flex as the steering is turned. Hopefully the groan noise is the result of the rack flexing when you turn the wheel, and not the result of an internal rack failure caused by the rack not being parallel with the subframe as torque is applied. If you get it properly mounted and the noise is still there, it will need a replacement EPAS rack.

 

[zombiekiller]

Ok, I get the Ford Perspective, BUT...

1. The Rack bolts have no less than 3 different shank diameters. You aren't going to "find a longer bolt" anywhere easy. That is a huge cop-out, lazy answer.

2. Every single raptor out in the wild with a frame cut or bolt-on bumper is re-using those factory bolts without an issue.

3. Are you sure that the bushings are still captive and were not "spun"? ( does the bushing spin when you tighten or loosen the bolt?)

4. Did they bother to check the belt that is inside the rack? Or did they just see the aftermarket bumper, see that the bumper has to go through an extra 3/16" and decide that they had an "out" and didn't need to examine it any farther?

5. That 3/16" is not enough of a length delta to prevent the bolt from being able to tighten enough to hold the EPAS unit steady. I'll bet if you look at the bushing, there is appropriate thread engagement.

Yeah, you have an aftermarket bumper, but your dealer is being a real shit about actually trying to help a customer at all.

P.s.- kick the service manager in the jimmy for me, as it sounds like he/she is a real ass.

 

[zombiekiller]

If the aftermarket bumper attaches between the rack bolts and rack, you're going to need longer bolts to ensure that the bolt is all the way through the bushing/subframe. These trucks are heavy, and any loose mounting fasteners/improper mounting is going to cause the rack to move/flex as the steering is turned. Hopefully the groan noise is the result of the rack flexing when you turn the wheel, and not the result of an internal rack failure caused by the rack not being parallel with the subframe as torque is applied. If you get it properly mounted and the noise is still there, it will need a replacement EPAS rack.

the aftermarket bumper has a plate that sits flush on the front of the crossmember. It does not sit between the EPAS rack and the rear of the crossmember.

It has the same material impact of putting a washer on the bolt, then inserting it as normal. all that plate is doing is giving the bolt 3/16" less thread engagement.

If that is all it takes to make an EPAS unit groan and stop working, Ford did a real shit job of designing a tough desert truck. ( this is sarcasm).

 

[FordTechOne]

It has the same material impact of putting a washer on the bolt, then inserting it as normal. all that plate is doing is giving the bolt 3/16" less thread engagement.

Exactly. The bushings are thick, and the threads engage at the very end. The threads do not need to be deep, because they’re only holding the rack side to side, not front to back. That 3/16 of an inch may make all the difference when trying to get the bolt threads started on the back side of the bushing.

If that is all it takes to make an EPAS unit groan and stop working, Ford did a real shit job of designing a tough desert truck. ( this is sarcasm).

A unsecured fastener on a rack that turns 35” tires with 2 tons of weight above it is going to cause problems. That has nothing to do with “Ford’s Design”; sorry, they don’t design racks to operate with only half the bolts installed. Don’t be ridiculous.

 

[FordTechOne]

Ok, I get the Ford Perspective, BUT...

3. Are you sure that the bushings are still captive and were not "spun"? ( does the bushing spin when you tighten or loosen the bolt?)

The bushings aren’t threaded; wouldn’t make a difference.

4. Did they bother to check the belt that is inside the rack? Or did they just see the aftermarket bumper, see that the bumper has to go through an extra 3/16" and decide that they had an "out" and didn't need to examine it any farther?

You cannot check the belt. The internals of the EPAS rack are non-serviceable. If the belt was broken, the truck would have no power assist.

5. That 3/16" is not enough of a length delta to prevent the bolt from being able to tighten enough to hold the EPAS unit steady. I'll bet if you look at the bushing, there is appropriate thread engagement.

There are no threads in the bushing. Maybe OP can take a photo of the bolt thread engagement in the rack.

Yeah, you have an aftermarket bumper, but your dealer is being a real shit about actually trying to help a customer at all.

If he can post pics, we might be able to see what the dealer is talking about. I’m curious to see what they based their determination on.

 

[FordTechOne]

FYI...The steering gear mounting bolts are 1 time use; they are supposed to be discarded and replaced once they’re removed.

The replacement steering gear bolts must be torqued to 184 lb-ft, and the driver’s side steering gear mounting bolt must be torqued before the passenger side. If that procedure wasn’t followed, it may explain the possible lack of thread engagement.

 

[Denvertaco07]

FYI...The steering gear mounting bolts are 1 time use; they are supposed to be discarded and replaced once they’re removed.

The replacement steering gear bolts must be torqued to 184 lb-ft, and the driver’s side steering gear mounting bolt must be torqued before the passenger side. If that procedure wasn’t followed, it may explain the possible lack of thread engagement.

If this is the case, and they need to be longer, you have any suggestions for OP on how to obtain longer TTY bolts for this? Should be on the bumper manufacturer IMO, but doesn't seem like they know these are TTY and need to be longer than stock to accommodate their product.

 

[zombiekiller]

The bushings aren’t threaded; wouldn’t make a difference.



You cannot check the belt. The internals of the EPAS rack are non-serviceable. If the belt was broken, the truck would have no power assist.



There are no threads in the bushing. Maybe OP can take a photo of the bolt thread engagement in the rack.



If he can post pics, we might be able to see what the dealer is talking about. I’m curious to see what they based their determination on.

It's a nut that is molded into a bushing. The bushing is then press-fit into the aluminum housing of the EPAS. Yes, it is threaded for the bolt. If the bushing broke loose and was no longer pres-fit in place, you wouldn't be able to get the appropriate torque to suck the EPAS to the cross member.

The bushings with the captive nut are also not replaceable and there is no service part. (in this case the entire rack needs to be replaced). I went through this exact crap show when the DS captive bushing disappeared from my EPAS unit 20 miles north of san Felipe.

You actually can check the belt. There are 4 bolts that hold the cover. Is the belt is shredded, or partially shredded, it is tight enough inside the EPAS to cause binding, which may be the cause for the "groan". I understand that from Ford's service manual perspective, that the entire EPAS is the service part, But you can actually buy the belt separately, and it does have a part number, both in the U.S. and Mexico.

I was not aware that the EPAS bolts were torque to yield. You can't buy the DS bolt in qty of 1. The DS bolt only comes in qty 5 or 6. The PS bolt can be purchased qty 1. if I remember right, one of the bolts is $19 per and the other is $16 per.

I appreciate the pro-tip on torque the dS first. Logic would dictate that as the PS bolt is quite a bit shorter.

 

[FordTechOne]

If this is the case, and they need to be longer, you have any suggestions for OP on how to obtain longer TTY bolts for this? Should be on the bumper manufacturer IMO, but doesn't seem like they know these are TTY and need to be longer than stock to accommodate their product.

They don't appear to be TTY (no angle spec), so my guess would be engineering wants them replaced each time due to the thread locking compound. As @zombiekiller mentioned, the bolts step down in 3 different areas, so the only way to get a longer replacement would be through a custom bolt supplied by the bumper manufacturer.