Police Issues

[FrodoTBaggins88]

No. because when cops are around, I follow traffic rules

Sorry man....you tee'd that one up nice and pretty.....i had to hit it outta the park.

Haha all good. I do too, at least the ones that I know about!

 

[Quaesta]

You guys are really passionate about this. If only anyone in forums was half as passionate about staying on topic...

I get it dude, don't complain about the cop in court, ok, I won't. That wasn't my intention anyway. I'd explain more but it's pointless because people on the internet will always find something to argue with you about regardless.

I will say again, though, that it's not a police officer's job to be a ****. I'm totally cool with him pulling me over if I broke a rule, I'm totally cool with him telling me what I did was wrong. I didn't know it was a rule and he informed me it was, and I'm totally cool with that, and I haven't made a turn like that since. I never said "oh I didn't know it was a rule so that makes you a **** and I should get off the hook", that's never been my perspective. The problem was the cop was a raging ******* for no reason. I was out on my 9th wedding anniversary with my wife when it happened, in quite a fine mood, and I was polite to the guy. I never gave him any reason to think I was hostile or negative towards him. This is how I treat everyone. The cop was extremely belligerent, it was like he was trying everything he could to **** me off, and hope I reacted to it. He walked around my truck twice very slowly, looking it up and down, looking for anything he could to write me up for. This cop was a special case of *******, that's the only reason I mentioned it in the story at all. If it happened to you, I guarantee you would not have been happy with how that situation went down. This is not my first interaction with a police officer, believe it or not it IS possible for them to do their job without treating people like shit, and I've usually had positive interactions with cops even when I was getting a citation. I've never complained about a police officer in my life. I just mentioned in my story that the guy was a ****, which he was, and then get a shitstorm of "...back in my day sonny we just took our beatings like a man and didn't ask any questions" responses. That's cool man, you live your life how you want.

I'm not clogging up any court either, it's traffic court, they process whole groups of people at once. I will be globbed in with 10 or 15 other people and they'll ask my reason for contesting the ticket and I will tell them, and if they say that's not sufficient, you must pay the ticket, then I will pay the ticket and get on with my day.

So do you have a story about being noticed by police more in your Raptor or not?

Hey don’t get me wrong if the guy was a **** you absolutely should file a complaint. For all we know he has a history of this and just needs one more citizen compliant to push it over for an internal affairs review. Unfortunately, there are bad cops as it is a profession that attracts people with power trips, and those bad apples can given them all a bad name. This might be one of those bad apples that should not be a cop. And your compliant might help the next guy he decided to harass.

With respect to “traffic court”, the reason you are lumped in with 10-15 people is because everyone wants to fight their ticket rather than taking their lumps like a man.

As to your original question, everyone pays attention to the Raptor, not just cops, because they are bad ass trucks!

 

[FrodoTBaggins88]

Hey don’t get me wrong if the guy was a **** you absolutely should file a complaint. For all we know he has a history of this and just needs one more citizen compliant to push it over for an internal affairs review. Unfortunately, there are bad cops as it is a profession that attracts people with power trips, and those bad apples can given them all a bad name. This might be one of those bad apples that should not be a cop. And your compliant might help the next guy he decided to harass.

With respect to “traffic court”, the reason you are lumped in with 10-15 people is because everyone wants to fight their ticket rather than taking their lumps like a man.

As to your original question, everyone pays attention to the Raptor, not just cops, because they are bad ass trucks!

Then we can all agree that cops treating the people they are intended/paid to protect like garbage is a bad thing. That's all I was getting at, not that I am innocent of committing a traffic violation and should get off the hook because the guy was rude.

 

[Leftsidej]

Been reading through this extremely pleasant thread and thought I'd through in my two cents as a current LEO in the lower part of Missouri. I will absolutelyyyyy try to stay very neutral in this response because I tend to (at least I think) try and keep an open mind with anything I do, not just in the policing profession, but in life. (Deeeeep right?)

Baggins - As the above comment suggest, you ABSOLUTELY should file an internal complaint with the department if you felt mistreated by the officer during the stop. While I'm at work, I don't care if i'm in a ****** mood or having a ****** day down 10 reports etc, I will do my best to treat EVERYONE (even the biggest shit bag/tweakers you can think of) with respect until they give me a reason not. One motto that stuck with me from the academy was "treat them like family until you can't" and I try to stick to that piece of advice every call.

One thing I would like to point out just for knowledge, respectfully: Police Officers have a LOT of discretion with enforcement actions, especially with minuscule violations such as traffic violations and even misdemeanor crimes (weed for example, is still illegal in Missouri. If I stop a 19 year old college kid with some pot in his car, there are several different venues I can explore with enforcement action. I do not HAVE to do anything in terms of enforcement. Obviously department policy may change this from department-department, but no where in law does it say I SHALL enforce such and such violation or law.) With all of that being said, when I stop a vehicle for (fill in the blank) violation, my goal upon contact is to see if I can educate the operator of the vehicle WITHOUT issuing them a summons for that specific violation. For example, if your tags have been expired for 6 months and you have been stopped for this violations 4 times without fixing it, i'm going to assume you genuinely don't give a shit and think you're going to keep getting warnings, so this enforcement action isn't working and you probably need a summons. But what if that same person just went through a divorce, has 4 children, only has one means of transportation to get those kids to point A-B and genuinely can't afford to pay to update the tags? Then what? It's never black and white. I know i'm very far off on a tangent, but I'm just trying to give you a little perspective.

I have no idea why the officer you dealt with was a ******* or *******, I think that's completely unacceptable and unprofessional if it was unprovoked and I completely agree with you there. Robocops are not fun to deal with at all and that's why I recommend to completely stay off any interstate forever so you don't have to talk to a trooper. (joke)

To the OP: Probably just checking out your ride or as the other officer stated, you'd be shocked with how many cars you see driving down the street are actually stolen, at least in my neck of the woods. I could also go off on another awesome story about how the supreme court has ruled pre-textual car stops are absolutely legal and constitutional, but that's for another time, haha!

 

[FrodoTBaggins88]

Been reading through this extremely pleasant thread and thought I'd through in my two cents as a current LEO in the lower part of Missouri. I will absolutelyyyyy try to stay very neutral in this response because I tend to (at least I think) try and keep an open mind with anything I do, not just in the policing profession, but in life. (Deeeeep right?)

Baggins - As the above comment suggest, you ABSOLUTELY should file an internal complaint with the department if you felt mistreated by the officer during the stop. While I'm at work, I don't care if i'm in a ****** mood or having a ****** day down 10 reports etc, I will do my best to treat EVERYONE (even the biggest shit bag/tweakers you can think of) with respect until they give me a reason not. One motto that stuck with me from the academy was "treat them like family until you can't" and I try to stick to that piece of advice every call.

One thing I would like to point out just for knowledge, respectfully: Police Officers have a LOT of discretion with enforcement actions, especially with minuscule violations such as traffic violations and even misdemeanor crimes (weed for example, is still illegal in Missouri. If I stop a 19 year old college kid with some pot in his car, there are several different venues I can explore with enforcement action. I do not HAVE to do anything in terms of enforcement. Obviously department policy may change this from department-department, but no where in law does it say I SHALL enforce such and such violation or law.) With all of that being said, when I stop a vehicle for (fill in the blank) violation, my goal upon contact is to see if I can educate the operator of the vehicle WITHOUT issuing them a summons for that specific violation. For example, if your tags have been expired for 6 months and you have been stopped for this violations 4 times without fixing it, i'm going to assume you genuinely don't give a shit and think you're going to keep getting warnings, so this enforcement action isn't working and you probably need a summons. But what if that same person just went through a divorce, has 4 children, only has one means of transportation to get those kids to point A-B and genuinely can't afford to pay to update the tags? Then what? It's never black and white. I know i'm very far off on a tangent, but I'm just trying to give you a little perspective.

I have no idea why the officer you dealt with was a ******* or *******, I think that's completely unacceptable and unprofessional if it was unprovoked and I completely agree with you there. Robocops are not fun to deal with at all and that's why I recommend to completely stay off any interstate forever so you don't have to talk to a trooper. (joke)

To the OP: Probably just checking out your ride or as the other officer stated, you'd be shocked with how many cars you see driving down the street are actually stolen, at least in my neck of the woods. I could also go off on another awesome story about how the supreme court has ruled pre-textual car stops are absolutely legal and constitutional, but that's for another time, haha!

Thanks for being cool man, I appreciate officers like you and people like you in general that are able to approach other people and situations with an open mind and understand that not everything is black or white. It's funny that the 2 LEOs that responded to my comment both understood what I was trying to say, but the non-LEOs tried to stir up crap about it.

I know there are people out there that don't like the police for one reason or another and I'm sure as an LEO it gets tiresome dealing with folks like that. I'm not one of those people. This officer obviously had a chip on his shoulder. I didn't give him any reason to act in that manner. Like I said I haven't even been pulled over in 8 years. I'm an Army vet with 2 deployments and no criminal history. He didn't ask me any questions other than "do you know why I pulled you over" so he wasn't interested in anything other than writing some tickets and that's within his discretion so more power to him. I'm just saying try to be decent you know, not asking for much.

 

[Leftsidej]

Thanks for being cool man, I appreciate officers like you and people like you in general that are able to approach other people and situations with an open mind and understand that not everything is black or white. It's funny that the 2 LEOs that responded to my comment both understood what I was trying to say, but the non-LEOs tried to stir up crap about it.

I know there are people out there that don't like the police for one reason or another and I'm sure as an LEO it gets tiresome dealing with folks like that. I'm not one of those people. This officer obviously had a chip on his shoulder. I didn't give him any reason to act in that manner. Like I said I haven't even been pulled over in 8 years. I'm an Army vet with 2 deployments and no criminal history. He didn't ask me any questions other than "do you know why I pulled you over" so he wasn't interested in anything other than writing some tickets and that's within his discretion so more power to him. I'm just saying try to be decent you know, not asking for much.

Absolutely understand and I’m sorry you had a negative experience. If you do go to court on it, maybe explain that to the judge. Exactly what you mentioned above in regards to no criminal history etc.
I’ll be honest it probably won’t do anything and judges are usually worse than cops haha, but worth a shot for maybe a little cheaper ticket.

I think the whole “argument” here is a misunderstanding with what you were trying to say which is obviously common on the internet. Everyone here had extremely valid points and mp_tx did a very good job explaining some criminal procedure.


Moral of the story: **** cops are *****.

Side note: if anyone on here has any questions in terms of law enforcement, please feel free to pm me and I’d love to help any way I can! Probably can’t help with any criminal law questions unless you’re in Missouri.

 

[FrodoTBaggins88]

Absolutely understand and I’m sorry you had a negative experience. If you do go to court on it, maybe explain that to the judge. Exactly what you mentioned above in regards to no criminal history etc.
I’ll be honest it probably won’t do anything and judges are usually worse than cops haha, but worth a shot for maybe a little cheaper ticket.

I think the whole “argument” here is a misunderstanding with what you were trying to say which is obviously common on the internet. Everyone here had extremely valid points and mp_tx did a very good job explaining some criminal procedure.


Moral of the story: **** cops are *****.

Side note: if anyone on here has any questions in terms of law enforcement, please feel free to pm me and I’d love to help any way I can! Probably can’t help with any criminal law questions unless you’re in Missouri.

Thanks for letting yourself be a resource. I agree the guy did have valid points and good information but it was negated by the whole "you're a snowflake and you should just let cops treat you like shit because it's their job" comments. That's just dumb.

 

[GCATX]

I got a speeding ticket a few years ago, first one in probably 15 years. I wasn't going that fast, paper plates new truck, could have gone either way with a warning or a ticket. Cop was an ass though and gave me a tongue lashing. At least have the courtesy to give a fella a reach around while you're having your way.

I get it though, it was in a ****** part of town he's probably seen some things. Whatever, did online defensive driving and watched a baseball game at the same time. Stupid tax.

 

[Ruger]

This thread could have gone bad, but some level heads (particularly @Leftsidej ) saved it. Thank heaven.

I serve as a reserve sheriff's deputy and am the background investigator for the Sheriff's Office. No, I'm not a wanna-be. I'll be 65 years old in August of this year, and I have no adolescent aspirations or pretentions. I served as a Department of the Army career civilian for 36 years, retired, and serving got under my skin. So I've very happily found another way to continue to serve. That's not germane to the thread, but it tells you where I'm coming from.

Many people only see the uniform. I have had pleasant conversations with people while in uniform, see them the next day and greet them just as warmly, and they look at me like I'm a psycho because they didn't see me as a person when we talked the day before. They didn't talk to ME, they talked to a COP. My sense is that a great many misunderstandings would be avoided if the citizenry saw LEOs as real people, real living souls. The same thing happens to members of the military, sadly, and it's a remarkable commentary on how preposterously blind to the human element humans can be on a routine basis.

The LEO who pulls you over is a real person. His momma just died, his marriage is going south, his kid just got picked up for drugs or DUI, his hemorrhoids may be killing him, or it may simply be the end of a long shift in which somebody's 14 year-old kid took their own life. Yes he's supposed to be professional, polite, kind. Officer Friendly. But he's just a man, or she's just a woman. He (or she!) will try, he truly will, but he may not always succeed like he'd like to. Please keep this in mind.

I got stopped by a female officer in my Raptor one time. I have forgotten why, but I do remember that my truck was new at the time. She was polite and warned me about whatever I'd done, and I was polite and accepted her admonitions with thanks. She smiled, started to turn away, and then turned back and said something nice about my Raptor. I said, "Thanks! Want a peek under the hood?" She shook her head, said no, and then stopped. "Um, yeah," she said, "I really would!" So I popped the hood, hopped out, and gave her the Ford Raptor Orientation Briefing. She loved it, and I made a friend.

The most common radio call I hear from members of my agency is "10-8, verbal." That means that the deputy is back in service from an encounter with a civilian, and he issued a verbal warning in lieu of a citation. I hear that so many times a day and hear "10-8, one cite" so infrequently that it's literally astounding. Leftsidej is right - an LEO has a great deal of latitude in his encounters with a civilian. One of our guys was involved in a deadly force situation with a civilian who was armed with a big Bowie knife and a club, and was confronted by this screaming man at very close quarters inside a truck stop. Another LEO might have shot him and would have been entirely within department guidelines and the law to have done so. Our guy tased him. He lived. No blood on the truck stop linoleum. The guy turned out to be completely crazy and instead of being prosecuted for assaulting a protected person, he was transported to a mental hospital. Get it? Latitude. Discretion. Give an LEO enough wiggle room to exercise that latitude, be as polite to him as you would to the Pope or the Queen, and he will almost always take that opportunity and be glad of it.

During my career with the Army I came to understand that the people who work for the military - uniformed or civilian - are most definitely not a cross-section of Americana. It's a different mix than what you might see at the bus depot or the airport. They're a cut above. I've found that the very same is true of LEOs, and I'm grateful to have had the opportunity to work with both.

 

[Leftsidej]

This thread could have gone bad, but some level heads (particularly @Leftsidej ) saved it. Thank heaven.

I serve as a reserve sheriff's deputy and am the background investigator for the Sheriff's Office. No, I'm not a wanna-be. I'll be 65 years old in August of this year, and I have no adolescent aspirations or pretentions. I served as a Department of the Army career civilian for 36 years, retired, and serving got under my skin. So I've very happily found another way to continue to serve. That's not germane to the thread, but it tells you where I'm coming from.

Many people only see the uniform. I have had pleasant conversations with people while in uniform, see them the next day and greet them just as warmly, and they look at me like I'm a psycho because they didn't see me as a person when we talked the day before. They didn't talk to ME, they talked to a COP. My sense is that a great many misunderstandings would be avoided if the citizenry saw LEOs as real people, real living souls. The same thing happens to members of the military, sadly, and it's a remarkable commentary on how preposterously blind to the human element humans can be on a routine basis.

The LEO who pulls you over is a real person. His momma just died, his marriage is going south, his kid just got picked up for drugs or DUI, his hemorrhoids may be killing him, or it may simply be the end of a long shift in which somebody's 14 year-old kid took their own life. Yes he's supposed to be professional, polite, kind. Officer Friendly. But he's just a man, or she's just a woman. He (or she!) will try, he truly will, but he may not always succeed like he'd like to. Please keep this in mind.

I got stopped by a female officer in my Raptor one time. I have forgotten why, but I do remember that my truck was new at the time. She was polite and warned me about whatever I'd done, and I was polite and accepted her admonitions with thanks. She smiled, started to turn away, and then turned back and said something nice about my Raptor. I said, "Thanks! Want a peek under the hood?" She shook her head, said no, and then stopped. "Um, yeah," she said, "I really would!" So I popped the hood, hopped out, and gave her the Ford Raptor Orientation Briefing. She loved it, and I made a friend.

The most common radio call I hear from members of my agency is "10-8, verbal." That means that the deputy is back in service from an encounter with a civilian, and he issued a verbal warning in lieu of a citation. I hear that so many times a day and hear "10-8, one cite" so infrequently that it's literally astounding. Leftsidej is right - an LEO has a great deal of latitude in his encounters with a civilian. One of our guys was involved in a deadly force situation with a civilian who was armed with a big Bowie knife and a club, and was confronted by this screaming man at very close quarters inside a truck stop. Another LEO might have shot him and would have been entirely within department guidelines and the law to have done so. Our guy tased him. He lived. No blood on the truck stop linoleum. The guy turned out to be completely crazy and instead of being prosecuted for assaulting a protected person, he was transported to a mental hospital. Get it? Latitude. Discretion. Give an LEO enough wiggle room to exercise that latitude, be as polite to him as you would to the Pope or the Queen, and he will almost always take that opportunity and be glad of it.

During my career with the Army I came to understand that the people who work for the military - uniformed or civilian - are most definitely not a cross-section of Americana. It's a different mix than what you might see at the bus depot or the airport. They're a cut above. I've found that the very same is true of LEOs, and I'm grateful to have had the opportunity to work with both.

Absolutely could not have put what you just stated any better, thanks for sharing.

I'm 24 years old, and have been an LEO since I graduated college a few years ago. I truly do love what I do even though dealing with the 10% of the *********, for lack of a better term, people that you could think of on a daily basis is rather cumbersome.

You hit the nail on the head mentioning being a real person. Depending on call-volume, I love having "normal people" conversations with people I contact, even if it's the 10th time I have arrested that individual for possession of controlled substance or w/e it may be. Prior to contrary belief, I do like to laugh!

Baggins - I hope everything works out in reference to the unpleasant encounter you had, and I hope IF you ever have to deal with any coppers in the future, it's a pleasant memory!