New problems with inner hub bearings

[tec548]

Guys, I'm hoping someone out there has a solution or has encountered this. I'll start with some back ground for those who don't know me. I have a 13' SCREW with Fox 3.0 front and rear with Deaver's and SVC bump stops. I drive the truck pretty hard off road and use to commute to work on occasion. I have 28k miles on the odo and probably about 8~9k off road. I do not use full throttle in 1st gear and try not to over articulate while under heavy loads... sometimes it's not and option but there you have it.

I first started having problems with the OEM CV's. (This is a common problem for everyone) After just about every event or outing I would break at least one CV shaft. I got tired of this after going through about 4~5 sets. It was getting expensive, so I opted to go with the Ultimate CV. I had heard of some problems with them as well but after speaking with RPG and RCV I was convinced this was the way to go. Since putting them on I have not had a problem with the CV joints or shafts, but I have been having inner hub bearing failures. See pictures attached.

What is happening is the outer roller bearing that captures the nut that holds the CV outer shaft to the hub is failing. When it does the ball bearings come free they grind the shaft end. When this happens it ruins the outer CV end, wheel bearing and sometimes the actuator (IWE). (wheel bearings are not serviceable...) So now this is a $600+ a side fix after every hard run.

How many guys are running the RCV IWE delete? Have you had problems with the differential, drive shaft or TF case? I'm worried about loading these components in drag (2WD) and creating bad wear on ring/pinion and torsion differential. Of course this would be even more expensive to repair later. I believe there would still be a problem with the inner bearing but at least it will not be rotating free in 2WD with the eliminator kit installed.

Anyone that has had this problem please chime in. Especially you guys with the long travel kits... are you having these problems? Why am I? This is not about pointing fingers at anyone or any thing. I want to get a solution to what is becoming a very expensive problem... and of course Ford is of no use.

Joel

 

[ntm]

Were you losing the outer bearings previous to installation of the rcv axles. If not, then they're your problem.
Improper dimensions on the stub shaft will allow you to put a load on the outer bearing with the retainer nut. Which is bad.

Something I am finding with the long travel and having recently converted to 2wd is that I've had no wants for the 4wd. You don't lose momentum when you hit big mud holes due to having lots of suspension.

 

[tec548]

Thanks for your input. You were one of the guys I was hoping to hear from.

No, I was not having problems with the outer stub bearings previous to installing the RCV axles. I spoke with RCV about this very thing and they tell me that the stub shaft is the exact dimension of the OEM. I agree with them and believe this to be the case. What I am thinking is that the stronger axle transmits higher torques and loads to the bearings where the OEM would simply fail at the axle. I have no proof of this other than by maybe putting OEM axles back on and replacing them regularly. This being the case though would render the RCV axles of no use and a waste of $3k. If they work but create a more expensive problem then they are not a fix... they are a real weakness.

The inner bearings were always good with the OEM axles but they (axel) would fail with certainty almost every time. Now, the RCV axles are good but the inner bearings fail and sometimes ruin the stub along with the wheel bearing and IWE. I don't have to tell you how expensive this gets. Going 2WD would address the problem and truth be told I 2WD most of the time anyway. I just like to know that I have 4WD for a climb or something if needed.

Are there any other guys out there running my set-up and not having these issues? I really do want to hear from you guys. If there is something else that I need, I'm up for it. I haven't been afraid of throwing money at this truck yet... I just get tired of throwing at the same thing!

Joel

 

[ntm]

There's no way that bearing is failing purely from a normal load. Only thing that might do it is if the outer cv joint was binding so badly, it put a monster side load on the bearing. But that's pretty unlikely without other symptoms.
99% likely that you have too much end play in that stub shaft.

 

[boarder1995]

Have you cycled your suspension without the coil-over and no wheel installed? To see if there's any binding or growth of the end shaft due to CV joint pivot location relative to suspension geometry? I didn't catch it above, but beyond Fox3.0, do you have any aftermarket front suspension components? Upper or lower control arms, etc., that might be built out of spec?

 

[tec548]

The only thing that I have noticed a time or two is a loud pop coming from the front end. I cannot correlate it directly to any one of the failures because when in the truck you can hear it but really have no idea as to which side it comes from. I have been fooled with this one before. It also has only happened while at an event or outing so I did not (have not) stopped and disassembled everything at the time to see if this is when it happens (starts to fail). I guess I'll have to take off a CV and take some measurements of the bearing surfaces and compare to some OEM ones I have laying around.

Except for the worst one (last picture of the first post) the needle bearings were okay. In both cases the roller bearings were completely destroyed.

My underpinnings are still mostly stock as far as geometry goes. UCA, LCA and knuckle are OEM. With the 3.0 I have a touch more down stroke than stock so there could be some binding there. I have not checked for binding at maximum strokes of the suspension. I did check the corners and as suspected that is fine. That's not a bad idea to go ahead and check that though. I have limiting straps but have never installed them.

Thanks for the input and keep it coming! I'll try to have these above mentioned questions answered soon.

Is anyone else having inner hub bearing failures or am I just the lucky one? Hard to get any sympathy from RCV, Ford, etc... if I'm the only guy out there breaking my truck.


Joel

 

[tec548]

Long weekend to say the least.

Here is what I found:

OEM and RCV stub axle ends are exactly the same. Measurements are as follows:
0.9865" on the needle bearing surface
0.470" on the roller bearing surface
2.70" from the face of the spline gear to the face of the roller bearing taper.

I have no rubbing or binding issues at full compression. Wheels turn freely.

In droop. I start having some rubbing issue with the outer CV boot (Red) to LCA at 31.75" (measured from the center of the hub to bottom of fender and I do have glass fenders) The axle does not stop turning but is not as free. Axle incident angle is 30.7 degrees. At full droop I measure 32.75" center of hub to fender. The CV boot is trapped and does not turn. Axle and hub turns but is a bit tighter yet. There is no binding just takes more pressure to rotate. Axle incident angle is 36.6 degrees.

Still have not heard back from RCV regarding this issue.

Joel

 

[ntm]

Anything over 30 degrees on the factory cv is catastrophic. Don't know what the rcv's are rated to.
As soon as the cv binds and can't plunge, your damaging them.
Check to see at what point the cv axle loses it's ability to slide in and out, if it does bind, you've found your issue. 36 degrees is a lot of angle.

Long weekend to say the least.

Here is what I found:

OEM and RCV stub axle ends are exactly the same. Measurements are as follows:
0.9865" on the needle bearing surface
0.470" on the roller bearing surface
2.70" from the face of the spline gear to the face of the roller bearing taper.

I have no rubbing or binding issues at full compression. Wheels turn freely.

In droop. I start having some rubbing issue with the outer CV boot (Red) to LCA at 31.75" (measured from the center of the hub to bottom of fender and I do have glass fenders) The axle does not stop turning but is not as free. Axle incident angle is 30.7 degrees. At full droop I measure 32.75" center of hub to fender. The CV boot is trapped and does not turn. Axle and hub turns but is a bit tighter yet. There is no binding just takes more pressure to rotate. Axle incident angle is 36.6 degrees.

Still have not heard back from RCV regarding this issue.

Joel

 

[whoisbigman]

Have you cycled your suspension without the coil-over and no wheel installed? To see if there's any binding or growth of the end shaft due to CV joint pivot location relative to suspension geometry? I didn't catch it above, but beyond Fox3.0, do you have any aftermarket front suspension components? Upper or lower control arms, etc., that might be built out of spec?

Ding, ding, ding... check for binding at full droop, but with wheels also turned lock to lock. There should be no change in free rotation. If any change in rotation, you have a geometry problem... something is out of whack.

 

[CoronaRaptor]

I'm not an expert, and this may sound dumb: don't the offroad racers use limit straps to stop the amount of travel? I mean if you jack the front of the truck up from the frame, the tire should drop no more than a specific measurement, which might be the problem. Just throwing it in the wind here. Very interesting read.