need towing expertise

[t_j]

Were going for it. I am not selling my raptor and Reptar has a good point. I am not buying a specific tow vehicle for 15% of my towing. Thats about my towing percentage as well. Im going to put a weight dist hitch on it and make sure our bags and cargo are in the camper. Actually the camper we want is 7600 dry so we will see. The dealer told me I can hitch up to the camper and see how the truck handles it before I buy it. Not tow it of course but hitch it up to see how much it squats.

Always remember...this is my identical truck. https://youtu.be/TeSFP7gyjnk

Well your leafs will be sacked out pretty quick

 

[TBONE21]

Well your leafs will be sacked out pretty quick

How do you know?

 

[Reptar]

Ok I get ya. You make alot of logic here. I was just checking. I dont want to hurt my truck at all. I love my Raptor. I value your opinion since you have towed with a raptor alot more weight than I ever have. I am headed to the 8000 to 8500 pound range with my camper thats 800 tongue weight. I will have a weight dist hitch and will only tow the camper every now and then. Just wanting to make sure my raptor will be ok. I know it has enough power.

Understandable, especially since it's not a cheap investment lol, but the stereotype did get a bit out of hand with the "weak frame" deal, yes it's weak when driven like a trophy truck across kickers taller than available suspension compression. When used within reasonable limitations, and when used at what it's rated at towing from the factory on highway roads, it's just fine.

Also that tow rating is with no additional supporting mods, it's for a bone stock raptor. Doing the weight dist hitch and if you add helper bags it will help even more. All of my towing to date has been with a NON-weight dist hitch, just a regular receiver/drawbar/etc. and without bags, just bone stock raptor. I got a programmer last year and it has a towing tune, but honestly I notice zero difference over the factory tune and using the tow/haul button. I'm really interested to see how it does this year once I get the helper bags on, and with my enclosed I may add a weight dist hitch down the road.

It will be ok with an empty gas tank and one 200lbs driver or a full tank and no people in it.

Yes because Ford rated it for ZERO margin. I'm sure you also follow every single instruction in the user manual too, and every single law in existence. No tint beyond allowed, no driving above posted speeds, no modification of the vehicle, no driving beyond the exact limitations listed in the raptor supplement.....right?

How do you know?

He doesn't know.....I'm at 42k miles, factory springs, factory shocks, lots of towing at or near the 8k rating, once in a while above, no spring issues. Disregard half his comments, he also tried to swear up and down in one thread to me that these trucks are not 12v systems, they're 14.x v, blah blah blah, NOT 12v....shut him up pretty quick digging up one of his old posts where he was asking where to find a 12v source under the dash and said "huh, thought you said these trucks weren't 12v systems, shouldn't you be asking for a 14.x v source instead?" *****


Another thing to keep in mind about guys who are scared to death about towing anywhere near the limit because they're afraid it'll break the truck or that a Raptor should never do such a thing even though it was built to do more than just offroad, keep in mind what they do with their own trucks.

Half of the guys who say you shouldn't tow that much because it's close or at or slightly above the ratings, are also the ones who flog the living snot out of their truck offroad beyond what the manual may recommend to do. Then they'll justify "oh well I changed shocks/tires/whatever so it can do more now".....well the same argument can be made with towing adequately with supporting mods.

Another chunk of the guys who are all scared that an occasional payload that will make the rear squat a bit will destroy the truck, and heaven forbid if the truck isn't dead on level when towing, are ones who themselves lug around an extra thousand pounds worth of crap like their MacGyver going on a rescue mission for 21 days from civilization crossing the Sahara and carrying 2 spares, a jack, 2 tool chests, 24 straps and chains, winch, 20 gal extra fuel, 10 gal water, and 2 cases of spare parts....to drive the damn trucks to walmart to pickup milk for their wife lol. But because it's cool offroading stuff, even though its 1,000+ lbs of extra crap lugged around allllll the time, it won't have any long term effect on sagging the suspension....but towing a couple hundred miles once a month with a few hundred lbs tongue weight, OMG you shouldn't do that bro! *****

 

[bstoner59]

Understandable, especially since it's not a cheap investment lol, but the stereotype did get a bit out of hand with the "weak frame" deal, yes it's weak when driven like a trophy truck across kickers taller than available suspension compression. When used within reasonable limitations, and when used at what it's rated at towing from the factory on highway roads, it's just fine.



Also that tow rating is with no additional supporting mods, it's for a bone stock raptor. Doing the weight dist hitch and if you add helper bags it will help even more. All of my towing to date has been with a NON-weight dist hitch, just a regular receiver/drawbar/etc. and without bags, just bone stock raptor. I got a programmer last year and it has a towing tune, but honestly I notice zero difference over the factory tune and using the tow/haul button. I'm really interested to see how it does this year once I get the helper bags on, and with my enclosed I may add a weight dist hitch down the road.







Yes because Ford rated it for ZERO margin. I'm sure you also follow every single instruction in the user manual too, and every single law in existence. No tint beyond allowed, no driving above posted speeds, no modification of the vehicle, no driving beyond the exact limitations listed in the raptor supplement.....right?







He doesn't know.....I'm at 42k miles, factory springs, factory shocks, lots of towing at or near the 8k rating, once in a while above, no spring issues. Disregard half his comments, he also tried to swear up and down in one thread to me that these trucks are not 12v systems, they're 14.x v, blah blah blah, NOT 12v....shut him up pretty quick digging up one of his old posts where he was asking where to find a 12v source under the dash and said "huh, thought you said these trucks weren't 12v systems, shouldn't you be asking for a 14.x v source instead?" *****





Another thing to keep in mind about guys who are scared to death about towing anywhere near the limit because they're afraid it'll break the truck or that a Raptor should never do such a thing even though it was built to do more than just offroad, keep in mind what they do with their own trucks.



Half of the guys who say you shouldn't tow that much because it's close or at or slightly above the ratings, are also the ones who flog the living snot out of their truck offroad beyond what the manual may recommend to do. Then they'll justify "oh well I changed shocks/tires/whatever so it can do more now".....well the same argument can be made with towing adequately with supporting mods.



Another chunk of the guys who are all scared that an occasional payload that will make the rear squat a bit will destroy the truck, and heaven forbid if the truck isn't dead on level when towing, are ones who themselves lug around an extra thousand pounds worth of crap like their MacGyver going on a rescue mission for 21 days from civilization crossing the Sahara and carrying 2 spares, a jack, 2 tool chests, 24 straps and chains, winch, 20 gal extra fuel, 10 gal water, and 2 cases of spare parts....to drive the damn trucks to walmart to pickup milk for their wife lol. But because it's cool offroading stuff, even though its 1,000+ lbs of extra crap lugged around allllll the time, it won't have any long term effect on sagging the suspension....but towing a couple hundred miles once a month with a few hundred lbs tongue weight, OMG you shouldn't do that bro! *****

You really missed your calling as head engineer at Ford. You seem to know everything about everything...super humble too


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[EricM]

Close to the rating is fine. Above the rating is a problem. If something happens, including someone else clearly being at fault by cutting in front of you and slamming on their brakes- an overweight vehicle can still cost you a lot of money, or land your ass in prison if someone is killed. With lawyers and insurance companies being as they are today, I'd never knowingly exceed the GVWR or CGVWR of a truck and operate it on public roads.

 

[Reptar]

You really missed your calling as head engineer at Ford. You seem to know everything about everything...super humble too


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Never said I know everything about everything, heck my post has nothing to do about being humble or not.

And don't worry, I'm a lead engineer on a different multi-billion dollar project lol Maybe that's why I can see past the stereotypes of "dur raptor = offroad only, no towie tow, only jumpie jump" and can actually evaluate what the truck is capable of doing as a truck overall.

Close to the rating is fine. Above the rating is a problem. If something happens, including someone else clearly being at fault by cutting in front of you and slamming on their brakes- an overweight vehicle can still cost you a lot of money, or land your ass in prison if someone is killed. With lawyers and insurance companies being as they are today, I'd never knowingly exceed the GVWR or CGVWR of a truck and operate it on public roads.

The EXACT same arguments can be made about ANY other modification to the vehicle or violating ANY other type of law.

Crash going above the speed limit, uh oh in trouble for speeding
Crash with aftermarket non-DOT bumpers and hurt someone, uh oh in trouble for illegal parts
Crash with illegal tint on the windows, uh oh in trouble for illegal obstruction of vision
Crash with beadlocks on, uh oh in trouble for non-DOT wheels
Crash while towing 200 lbs above your GVWR, uh oh in trouble for exceeding the trucks rating
Crash while buzzed, uh oh in trouble for exceeding your BAC limit

There's a difference between being stupid about it and doing things unsafely versus being smart about what you're doing even if it technically breaks a law or technicality.

Being stupid about it is adding 5% double limo tint on the windshield, driving under the influence, doing 100 in a 25, driving on bald tires, running no bumpers, towing 12k lbs, towing without a TBC, etc.

Being smart about it is adding tint that may technically be illegal, but not too dark that it's stupid.....doing 35 in a 25 or 80 in a 65, it's all illegal but it's not excessively stupid.......exceeding the tow rating by a couple hundred lbs, it's still technically illegal but it's not thousands over, the trucks are not rated with ZERO margin, and the exact same f150 chassis/brakes/powertrain can tow up to 11,300 lbs in other trim configurations.

Use your brains a little bit. Factors that lead to tow ratings....
-powertrain: not the 8k limiting factor for a raptor, as it's good for all 11300 max rating in other f150 configs
-brakes: not the 8k limiting factor for a raptor, as they're good for all 11300 max rating in other f150 configs
-Chassis: not the 8k limiting factor for a raptor, as the same frame in regular f150's is good for 11300
-Suspension: ah a limiting factor for that 8k since the raptor suspension is significantly different.
-Tires: ah another limiting factor for that 8k since the Raptor tires are significantly different

Suspension - a little squat ain't gonna hurt chit every once in a while. Not saying load 11300 on it, far too much, but 8400 isn't going to hurt. Add helper bags, you're increasing that margin.

Tires - can look into what they're rated at, this is probably the bigger factor of all to keep into consideration for payload on towing.

Again, not saying bags and tires will get you 11300 in a safe manner, but a couple hundred lbs over the 8k GVWR isn't as catastrophically bad as implied. And doing a couple supporting mods, it'll manage that weight just that much better. Still breaks the law, but so does a piece of tint film on a side window in NJ, and so does going 5 mph above the speed limit anywhere.

So while I'm not recommending doing stupid stuff and fully disregard the law, but I find it humorous some of you are super strict to the tee law abiding by GVWR down to the exact POUND, yet will drive around with tint, non-DOT wheels or tires, over the speed limit, which are all laws set for safety, yet those are eh no biggie if we bend those slightly....yet exceed GVWR by 100 lbs? OMG shut it down....SHUT....IT.....DOWN!!!!....Really folks? Little hypocritical.

 

[TBONE21]

Never said I know everything about everything, heck my post has nothing to do about being humble or not.

And don't worry, I'm a lead engineer on a different multi-billion dollar project lol Maybe that's why I can see past the stereotypes of "dur raptor = offroad only, no towie tow, only jumpie jump" and can actually evaluate what the truck is capable of doing as a truck overall.



The EXACT same arguments can be made about ANY other modification to the vehicle or violating ANY other type of law.

Crash going above the speed limit, uh oh in trouble for speeding
Crash with aftermarket non-DOT bumpers and hurt someone, uh oh in trouble for illegal parts
Crash with illegal tint on the windows, uh oh in trouble for illegal obstruction of vision
Crash with beadlocks on, uh oh in trouble for non-DOT wheels
Crash while towing 200 lbs above your GVWR, uh oh in trouble for exceeding the trucks rating
Crash while buzzed, uh oh in trouble for exceeding your BAC limit

There's a difference between being stupid about it and doing things unsafely versus being smart about what you're doing even if it technically breaks a law or technicality.

Being stupid about it is adding 5% double limo tint on the windshield, driving under the influence, doing 100 in a 25, driving on bald tires, running no bumpers, towing 12k lbs, towing without a TBC, etc.

Being smart about it is adding tint that may technically be illegal, but not too dark that it's stupid.....doing 35 in a 25 or 80 in a 65, it's all illegal but it's not excessively stupid.......exceeding the tow rating by a couple hundred lbs, it's still technically illegal but it's not thousands over, the trucks are not rated with ZERO margin, and the exact same f150 chassis/brakes/powertrain can tow up to 11,300 lbs in other trim configurations.

Use your brains a little bit. Factors that lead to tow ratings....
-powertrain: not the 8k limiting factor for a raptor, as it's good for all 11300 max rating in other f150 configs
-brakes: not the 8k limiting factor for a raptor, as they're good for all 11300 max rating in other f150 configs
-Chassis: not the 8k limiting factor for a raptor, as the same frame in regular f150's is good for 11300
-Suspension: ah a limiting factor for that 8k since the raptor suspension is significantly different.
-Tires: ah another limiting factor for that 8k since the Raptor tires are significantly different

Suspension - a little squat ain't gonna hurt chit every once in a while. Not saying load 11300 on it, far too much, but 8400 isn't going to hurt. Add helper bags, you're increasing that margin.

Tires - can look into what they're rated at, this is probably the bigger factor of all to keep into consideration for payload on towing.

Again, not saying bags and tires will get you 11300 in a safe manner, but a couple hundred lbs over the 8k GVWR isn't as catastrophically bad as implied. And doing a couple supporting mods, it'll manage that weight just that much better. Still breaks the law, but so does a piece of tint film on a side window in NJ, and so does going 5 mph above the speed limit anywhere.

So while I'm not recommending doing stupid stuff and fully disregard the law, but I find it humorous some of you are super strict to the tee law abiding by GVWR down to the exact POUND, yet will drive around with tint, non-DOT wheels or tires, over the speed limit, which are all laws set for safety, yet those are eh no biggie if we bend those slightly....yet exceed GVWR by 100 lbs? OMG shut it down....SHUT....IT.....DOWN!!!!....Really folks? Little hypocritical.

Hey I agree with you. Going over a little shouldn't hurt it. I just joined in this to make sure that the rear suspension wasn't so soft to be hurt from heavy towing and to make sure a hit to the bump stop with a load on the back won't hurt the frame if it hits in a g out on the highway.
My plan right now is head over to the rv dealership when they get the camper in I want. Once again its 7600 pounds dry and like 780 pound hitch weight. They said it was fine to hook up and see how much its going to squat with the weight dist hitch on it. If we hook up and its pretty much laying on the bump stops then Im not going to buy it which I doubt it does that. If it has a couple of inches between the bump stop then its party on Garth. I know the motor will be more than fine.

 

[Dane]

Hey I agree with you. Going over a little shouldn't hurt it. I just joined in this to make sure that the rear suspension wasn't so soft to be hurt from heavy towing and to make sure a hit to the bump stop with a load on the back won't hurt the frame if it hits in a g out on the highway.
My plan right now is head over to the rv dealership when they get the camper in I want. Once again its 7600 pounds dry and like 780 pound hitch weight. They said it was fine to hook up and see how much its going to squat with the weight dist hitch on it. If we hook up and its pretty much laying on the bump stops then Im not going to buy it which I doubt it does that. If it has a couple of inches between the bump stop then its party on Garth. I know the motor will be more than fine.

Also remember how much all the water in the tanks is going to weigh in addition to all the extra gear you'll take with! It adds up. Then throw in people...

 

[dataustin]

I'm so confused....

 

[Enigma94]

Hey I agree with you. Going over a little shouldn't hurt it. I just joined in this to make sure that the rear suspension wasn't so soft to be hurt from heavy towing and to make sure a hit to the bump stop with a load on the back won't hurt the frame if it hits in a g out on the highway.
My plan right now is head over to the rv dealership when they get the camper in I want. Once again its 7600 pounds dry and like 780 pound hitch weight. They said it was fine to hook up and see how much its going to squat with the weight dist hitch on it. If we hook up and its pretty much laying on the bump stops then Im not going to buy it which I doubt it does that. If it has a couple of inches between the bump stop then its party on Garth. I know the motor will be more than fine.

Id really look at staying under 7k dry. With a 100gal Fresh water tank(pretty average for trailers under 26') you'll be adding 800 more lbs, plus you have to factor in all your gear/occupants. The tongue weight of 780 should be ok with a WD hitch. I towed my toy hauler at 6500 dry with a tongue weight of 960 and I was about an inch and a half from the bump stops with a WD hitch. Toy haulers generally have higher hitch weights to account for the load in the back so look out for that too if that's what you're looking to get.

If you want to play it safe I'd suggest getting a set of bump stops and some stiffer springs to help with the towing. This is the route I'll be going as it seems to work best for both towing and better handling all around.