Livernois Head/Cam Package power loss confusion

[akley88]

Tuning a NA engine is as basic as it gets. Generally AFR and ignition timing is all you get. The aftermarket camshaft REQUIRES additional steps to set the lobe centers for best results with the specific camshaft. If you have a VVT setup, the cam timing must be set for best results with the selected cams as well. The cam spec sheet usually has all the pertinent information for setting up it up.

Livernois will not give you the cam specs. They will only say its proprietary. I was given the cam specs by someone else who bought them and measured them before install.

 

[TwizzleStix]

I get the feeling there are some "expert tuning" contributors in this thread who haven't even opened a tuning program for one of these trucks...

It is easier to tune a blower on any copperhead OS than it is to optimize camshafts, especially if you want it to drive well. It takes time and patience, the tuner needs to put street miles on it as well as dyno time.

Yeah, I agree... There are indeed a few people who "think" that the old way of tuning is somehow so difficult that more contemporary "tuners" can't get it done. That thought may even be true, but it is the true basics of any internal combustion 4-stroke engine.

It is likely a black art to those who only read about such things rather than having decades of experience in actually doing it ad driving the result. There are only a few basic recommendations for both single and dual-cam setups for best power. If the tuner (even an OEM) wants the engine to have power band characteristics other than for best power, like fuel economy at lower revs, etc. there are still just a few basic settings that work best. No, if you're the spec/dyno number racer, there are many additional steps you can take to get the number you're looking for, but that is just a number on paper rather than an actual result.

The difficulty comes into play when inexperienced "tuners" don't have these basic understandings and believe it to be some black art or magic dust sprinkled on it. A mechanical blower, not an exhaust-driven turbocharger, is quite easy to set up once the engine basics are done. The main variable is the peak cylinder pressure and duration thereof such that the rotating components can handle before breaking. This issue does require experience with the components themselves, not necessarily the specific engine. Well, unless you're taking about some of the older designs that didn't have good basic designs for oiling systems and head porting.

Ahhh, head porting. Now this one indeed requires much more in-depth skill. The basic physics of fluid dynamics applies, but it isn't as simple as the highest air-flow numbers. Oh well, too much rambling on my part...

 

[TwizzleStix]

Livernois will not give you the cam specs. They will only say its proprietary. I was given the cam specs by someone else who bought them and measured them before install.

Oh, so the cam grind is their own design work? In that case you would need to take the time to measure it all out and determine the specs for yourself. That is a project unto itself, but would pay back that time with better power results.

 

[akley88]

Oh, so the cam grind is their own design work? In that case you would need to take the time to measure it all out and determine the specs for yourself. That is a project unto itself, but would pay back that time with better power results.

i do have the specs of the cams now. another member has measured them and provided them to me.

On a side note i did get a response from Livernois today. they apologized for the lack of followup here. i have called them and spoke with Chris who is trying to help me.

 

[akley88]

Livernois has reached back out to me and will be looking at the datalogs i have to see if they can help pin point a problem.

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

i do have the specs of the cams now. another member has measured them and provided them to me.

On a side note i did get a response from Livernois today. they apologized for the lack of followup here. i have called them and spoke with Chris who is trying to help me.

Yes sir we will get this handled. A data log will tell us a lot. Hoping we see something in the timing aspect that can be corrected. Just bolting the heads and cam on should not cause any decrease in hp or tq like this.

 

[Jakenbake]

@akley88

How is the truck doing now?

 

[CoronaRaptor]

X2. ^^^^

 

[Marlboroman]

I’d really like to know the outcome also. I took my spare engine down this weekend with plans on sending the heads to them for stage 3. I’ve spoken to them twice, once to a very nice and smart guy that genuinely knew what he was talking about. The second time to a cocky little guy that didn’t seem to want to deal with it. I’m not bashing or judging, just really want to know. Most if not all the threads regarding these cams end just like this. No real discussion as to what happened in the end. I’m happy to spend money as I have a budget planned. They seem to be highly recommended but at the end of the day I’ve yet to see a thread supporting this upgrade be it n/a or forced induction. Anyway I’m going to call one more time I hope to talk to the first guy again.

 

[CoronaRaptor]

I’d really like to know the outcome also. I took my spare engine down this weekend with plans on sending the heads to them for stage 3. I’ve spoken to them twice, once to a very nice and smart guy that genuinely knew what he was talking about. The second time to a cocky little guy that didn’t seem to want to deal with it. I’m not bashing or judging, just really want to know. Most if not all the threads regarding these cams end just like this. No real discussion as to what happened in the end. I’m happy to spend money as I have a budget planned. They seem to be highly recommended but at the end of the day I’ve yet to see a thread supporting this upgrade be it n/a or forced induction. Anyway I’m going to call one more time I hope to talk to the first guy again.

Keep us posted on what the "smart guy" says.