Ford TSR Letter re: Sync 3, APIM Hardware - 2nd APIM, Frustrated!

[solsurfr]

Looking for some help with my 2017 Gen2 from those in-the-know. I've had intermittent Sync 3 issues that are well documented and proliferated throughout Ford forums everywhere. For me, when I have my iPhone 11 Pro connected (which is on the latest Apple software), Sync 3 would randomly reboot after about 20-30 mins of driving and I often get "no gps" on my nav screen. My Sync system is 3.0 v19205.

My dealer has replaced my APIM already once so this is the 2nd APIM and with nearly the same problems as with the first APIM. My dealer is frustrated and so is their lead SYNC tech in their shop.

The tech who worked on my Gen2 reached out to Ford and sent them a request for assistance (TSR). According to my tech, my SYNC system is up-to-date with the latest SW and the APIM passed all the tests but when he did a "guided" hardware test, his tool said the APIM hardware needs a software update. I assume this is a firmware update? The tech didn't know what to do as he was confused as to why he received a notification that my SYNC system was updated but the APIM hardware needed an updated.

Please see Ford's response which I attached. The Ford TSR tech said to "ignore" the APIM software update notifications and that the APIM software may be incompatible with my brand new iPhone 11 Pro -- REALLY???????

So... the tech did a master reset (again) and said to not connect my phone via USB or bluetooth for a week to see if the problem comes back. If SYNC does reboot on it's own without my phone, then it's likely an APIM hardware failure. If SYNC reboots only when my phone is connected, then it "must" be my brand new iPhone 11 Pro -- WTF!!!!

I'm so VERY tempted to follow the instructions to go from 3.0 to 3.4 and install the latest APIM firmware but I'm also very nervous about going down that road. If any of the experts who are comfortable in doing this upgrade and are located in the mid-atlantic, I would be happy to pay for gas and whatever reasonable fees you would charge to help me out and do the upgrade. Please PM me.

So for grins and giggles, I'll comply. I'll run my truck without connecting my phone for a week and see what happens. I always use CarPlay so this will be a detoxing experience for me. My guess is that SYNC 3 will run fine and have no problems until I connect my phone. A bit frustrating to have this kind of software instability on a $72K+ truck...

 

[smurfslayer]

What chu talkin’ bout Willis?

connected by bluetooth or CarPlay?
I had this version for a long time, iPhone 10s, and never had a sync reboot. Mostly I use bluetooth connection, but once in a while I use waze over carplay when I expect some navigational challenges - again, not seen this issue.

The memo doesn’t go into what specifically they mean by incompatible, it may just be a misinterpretation.

Do they mean - ‘never verified these 2 combinations’? True, because the 10 is newer than 2017.

Do they mean ‘there’s a known incompatibility’ between the 2? that’s quite different but often times the tech taking the question is looking at previously documented issues. They may be saying ‘incompatible’ with something that was simply not verified.

it’s possible the APIM may have had a period of faulty units showing up at rates higher than usual. could be a different supplier or different materials. it can be as simple as weak solder on a board that only manifests when it’s really hot - which happens when you tax the system.

Lots of possibilities here.

 

[solsurfr]

Smurf, thanks for the reply. In other upgrade threads, users are saying their are updating their firmware prior to upgrading to 3.4 Why wouldn’t the tech just update the firmware of the APIM says there’s an update?

What version are you running?

 

[Pikser]

I think you need a new APIM. My 2017 is on it’s third replacement. Now works great.

 

[solsurfr]

Smurf— i didn’t answer your question. Happens when connected USB CarPlay

 

[solsurfr]

I think you need a new APIM. My 2017 is on it’s third replacement. Now works great.

im thinking the same.

 

[smurfslayer]

I ran 3.0 19205 for a while, and - knock wood - did not experience the CarPlay disconnect / fault you’re describing. Full disclosure: within the first few weeks after I bough the 2017 I had the sync screen go completely dark on me after starting up- this was on 2.2 I think. It never happened again and there was no phone involved.

Also I’m not a CarPlay fan, nor do I really care for the implementation. That said, once in a while I use CarPlay for waze.

Right now I’m running sync 3.4 but ... I did not do the firmware update.

I think to drive this to resolution you may need to prod the stealership a bit. Ask them to clarify if there is actually a known incompatibility with the iPhone x or if it is just that there wasn’t full validation between iPhone x and your firmware / 3.0-19205.

If it’s an incompatibility, what specifically is it?

when I have my iPhone 10 Pro connected (which is on the latest Apple software), Sync 3 would randomly reboot after about 20-30 mins of driving and I often get "no gps" on my nav screen. My Sync system is 3.0 v19205.

When you say I often get no gps on my nav screen - do you mean after the random reboot, it comes up with no gps OR, do you disconnect the phone after the reboot and get this? looking for more specificity. If it restarts, comes back and says no gps with your phone still connected, what happens when you disconnect the phone?

There are a number of reasons this might happen. table exceeded, memory leak, etc.

I'm so VERY tempted to follow the instructions to go from 3.0 to 3.4 and install the latest APIM firmware but I'm also very nervous about going down that road.

You are right to be nervous. Never modify when you have a known problem. Years ago we had a user throw a tune on a truck that had misfire condition. Guess what? it didn’t improve by adding mods on top of a system with an actual problem. Don’t be that guy.
You have a bug, corrupted software, corrupted firmware or possibly bad hardware. Upgrading until or unless you run this to ground may have unpredictable results and you may not know or find out the results for seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks or months.

 

[REMIX]

What is an iPhone 10 Pro? There is no such thing, do you mean an iPhone 11 Pro? Anyway, when I was having issues with a different vehicle much like the ones you're experiencing, I tested with several iPhones and cables to determine the issue wasn't phone related. That's how I got the dealer and service department to take it seriously. I actually bought a new iPhone thinking the problem was with my old phone - it wasn't. I was able to hook up 5 different iPhones to my car (one of them the service manager's) and duplicate the same behavior with each and every one. Document all of it and provide proof.

 

[solsurfr]

What is an iPhone 10 Pro? There is no such thing, do you mean an iPhone 11 Pro? Anyway, when I was having issues with a different vehicle much like the ones you're experiencing, I tested with several iPhones and cables to determine the issue wasn't phone related. That's how I got the dealer and service department to take it seriously. I actually bought a new iPhone thinking the problem was with my old phone - it wasn't. I was able to hook up 5 different iPhones to my car (one of them the service manager's) and duplicate the same behavior with each and every one. Document all of it and provide proof.

Yes, sorry. Meant iPhone 11 Pro. I updated my original post to reflect this. I took their shop foreman out for a drive and was able to show him the "no gps" icon in my nav screen so he knows that problem exists. The rebooting of the system only happens on longer drives when I'm using CarPlay. I've had reboots happen after 10 mins of driving but it happens more after about 20 mins. As @Smurflayer eluded to, I can see that problem being heat-related or memory drain. I appreciate the responses. If, indeed, my iPhone 11 Pro is causing the rebooting of SYNC then the logical conclusion (I would think) is a bad APIM. Does this make sense or am I missing something?

 

[Donmatteo]

There are a lot of documented issues with CarPlay not working with various car manufacturers. I had a similar issue with my old Audi.

I would agree with ford that the issue is with Apple to a degree.

1. Verify you have an Apple cable or certified Apple cable when connecting your phone.
2. Verify you have the latest OS.

if it was a firmware of the APIM, there would be a lot more issues. Most car play problems are cable related or os related.

if you are up to date on the os, and you’re using an Apple cable. I would lean to a bad APIM.