EV Trucks Off-Road, what range do you think we'll see

[melvimbe]

You're right, Wh/mi is the number we care about. The weight affects that. The heavier the vehicle, the more energy it takes to move it around, but that's moot. The OP didn't actually calculate that, so lets do it now.

Hummer EV: 200kWh (350 mile range) 200kWh/350 = 571Wh/mi
Cyber Truck: 200kWh (500 mile range) 200kWh/500 = 400Wh/mi
Rivian EV: 180kWh (400 mile range) 180kWh/400 = 450Wh/mi
Bollinger EV: 175kWh (200 mile range) 175kWh/200 = 875Wh/mi

Honestly, I don't even trust these numbers. I don't know if there are government standards for these ratings the way there is for MPG, but even if there were, I would expect them to be much more lax as the government doesn't want to discourage EVs...but they do want to discourage ICE. Besides, I don't have a good feel for Watts in a gallon of gas....which of course will vary by the efficiency of individual vehicles.

The reality is that these vehicles will rarely be offroad, and when they are, it will only be for people who happen to live 25 miles or so from the trails, and only use it for a couple hours at a time at most.

Hydrogen fuel cells will be the future, not plug in EV.

I remember when Bush said the same thing in one of his SOTU addresses. I just don't think the politics are ever going move away from pushing EVs to pushing hydrogen, and there is the same infrastructure problem. Besides, I get the feeling there are negatives that are never talked about, such as downside of creating the hydrogen fuel, and possibly the water waste (seems like there has to be a downside to it)

 

[BenBB]

the politics

There's the ugly truth right there. Hydrogen is a much better solution until battery technology reaches usable energy density/efficiency, the caveat is that it takes a tremendous amount of energy to produce on a large scale (from what I understand it takes more energy to split hydrogen from oxygen than it produces on combustion). Perhaps if Warren Buffett was invested in it, things would be different heh.

 

[GordoJay]

Honestly, I don't even trust these numbers. I don't know if there are government standards for these ratings the way there is for MPG, but even if there were, I would expect them to be much more lax as the government doesn't want to discourage EVs...but they do want to discourage ICE. Besides, I don't have a good feel for Watts in a gallon of gas....which of course will vary by the efficiency of individual vehicles.

Until they ship and have to run the specs past the EPA, those are all design goals(aka marketing fantasy). The generally used conversion is that one gallon of gas equates to 33.7kWh. That won't vary by the efficiency of the vehicle, but miles per kWh will.

The reality is that these vehicles will rarely be offroad, and when they are, it will only be for people who happen to live 25 miles or so from the trails, and only use it for a couple hours at a time at most.

Is that because it's how most trucks are used or because it's the only way you could use these without risking a long walk home?

 

[melvimbe]

Until they ship and have to run the specs past the EPA, those are all design goals(aka marketing fantasy). The generally used conversion is that one gallon of gas equates to 33.7kWh. That won't vary by the efficiency of the vehicle, but miles per kWh will.

Yes, my point is that while a gallon of gas has a set amount of potential energy, an ICE engine won't convert 100% of that to useful kinetic energy, essentially. Much is lost through heat and other inefficiences. As you stated, it doesn't translate to miles per kWh.

Is that because it's how most trucks are used or because it's the only way you could use these without risking a long walk home?

Both? I'll put it this way, I have not taken my truck offroad much, really only to two locations. One is a beach about an hour away, about a 20 mph stretch...rather light. I think I would risk taking an EV to that, but only on a full charge. The other was actually about a week ago to an offroad park that's around 4 hours away. There's no way I would take an EV to that.

 

[GordoJay]

Both? I'll put it this way, I have not taken my truck offroad much, really only to two locations. One is a beach about an hour away, about a 20 mph stretch...rather light. I think I would risk taking an EV to that, but only on a full charge. The other was actually about a week ago to an offroad park that's around 4 hours away. There's no way I would take an EV to that.

The point is that you can't really go into the backcountry with an EV. Even if you want to. That few people want to is the only reason that these things might sell. That and the sub three second zero to sixty time.

 

[Pikser]

Having used an EV for a number of reasons i have only one thought !
Make sure you have a Generator with you !

 

[84 Sheepdog]

We will see Extreme E racing soon and what their range to recharging looks like. They are racing on 10 mile loops. I found one article so far where a driver was saying they can kill the 56kWh battery in 10 minutes(uphill+sand). Otherwise I haven't been able to find any other info.

So instead of the Baja 1000, we have the Baja 10 to look forward to. Sounds thrilling. Do they pit for 8 hours between loops so the batteries can recharge?

 

[Jakenbake]

So instead of the Baja 1000, we have the Baja 10 to look forward to. Sounds thrilling. Do they pit for 8 hours between loops so the batteries can recharge?

I think it is E1, electric F1, where they swap cars during the race rather than recharge.

 

[dillard09]

They just swap the whole battery setup. This guys did it in the KOH.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cn.../electric-toyota-4runner-king-of-the-hammers/

 

[B E N]

Besides, I don't have a good feel for Watts in a gallon of gas....

Thats not magic, or variable.

1 BTU= 0.293071 W
1 gallon of gas 116,090 Btus
1 gallon ethanol 53,956 BTUs

Figure out what your mix percent is, around here 10% ethanol is common so

.9 x 116090 + .1 x 53956 = 109876.6 btu in E10 fuel

109876.6btu x .293071btu/W = 32,201 watts per gallon. x.001 = 32kw per gallon

Usually figure an engine is around 30-36% thermally efficient, assume 33. So a gallon of gas is equivalent to about 10.6kw, there is a little loss in electric vehicles, but even if they were perfect these battery banks are a tough sell for off road.

Using these assumptions A 36 gallon raptor tank is 382 KW... and refills in minutes. Pretty easy to throw an extra 10-15 gallons of gas cans in the bed as well, so thats another 105-158kw of usable energy.

Quick change battery banks are becoming a thing, which means a recharge pit could be just minutes in a race scenario, this could become as fast as a tire change.

Hydrogen is a major problem. The fuel itself requires a specialized cell to be safe in an accident and that tech is currently big bucks, the rest of the tech is already there. You could buy hydrogen at a gas station in California at one time. Compressing hydrogen into a race car tank would be about 1/5th as exciting as watching a battery change, and take the same time.