GEN 2 Burger Tuning Stage 1 Piggyback

[AKLA]

Was that your experience?

Feel giving us a writeup/pros/cons?

MPG decrease or same?

I will after we finish the dyno session


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[Guy]

I’m not trying to rain on your parade....

But it’s not without a trace.

Ford and their engineers can see if the truck was driven with manipulated boost pressure and a manipulated data stream to the ECU.

Even after you remove the device.

If your drivetrain fails.... they’re going to be able to point their finger.

It’s a common myth that these piggyback tuners like to propagate to give you a reason to buy their product.

An MPT tune ***** your warranty if something catastrophic happens to your drivetrain.

This one is at least removable without a trace.


I'm not advocating for it, just posting the numbers/facts I saw. A true tune will always be better, but does come with some tradeoffs.

 

[FORZDA 1]

I've run piggyback tuners and done my own tuning/maps on several cars over the years and they have their place in the market. Most of the time on older vehicles that utilize the older OBD1 protocols they are the only option for reliable "tuning" of the engine computer. Generally speaking, they are not the preferred method on new(er) vehicles running OBD2 and OBD2 CAN systems. These newer systems offer immensely more tuning options via EEPROM in their ECU/PCM (they are the same, just with more/less functionality) especially on forced induction vehicles, including the Ecoboost Fords. The Ford Ecoboost is the new animal that the aftermarket has fully absorbed and decoded the ECU and Ford has cooperated by designing awesomely capable ECUs. A few of the aftermarket tuning companies have invested a bit more time/money/expertise than others and are capable of designing and inserting their own proprietary code into the ECU for additional functions. All said, the piggyback device is without doubt the "old" and "less capable" method of tuning before EEPROMs and flash-tuning gained the capability and popularity to leave piggybacks in the dust just a few years ago. While a well-developed piggyback can be utilized for a decent (price point based they are cheap) result in a current vehicle, it is sorely lacking if compared directly to ANY of the flash-tune devices/software. When/if any of you Raptor enthusiasts decide to do your own engine tuning via an aftermarket software/user interface flash tune, you will discover the almost unlimited potential available from the latest devices/software. I'm loving it! The main area I'm lacking in knowledge/experience is in the auto trans tuning, but I'll learn it quickly.

 

[dude1782]

I've run piggyback tuners and done my own tuning/maps on several cars over the years and they have their place in the market. Most of the time on older vehicles that utilize the older OBD1 protocols they are the only option for reliable "tuning" of the engine computer. Generally speaking, they are not the preferred method on new(er) vehicles running OBD2 and OBD2 CAN systems. These newer systems offer immensely more tuning options via EEPROM in their ECU/PCM (they are the same, just with more/less functionality) especially on forced induction vehicles, including the Ecoboost Fords. The Ford Ecoboost is the new animal that the aftermarket has fully absorbed and decoded the ECU and Ford has cooperated by designing awesomely capable ECUs. A few of the aftermarket tuning companies have invested a bit more time/money/expertise than others and are capable of designing and inserting their own proprietary code into the ECU for additional functions. All said, the piggyback device is without doubt the "old" and "less capable" method of tuning before EEPROMs and flash-tuning gained the capability and popularity to leave piggybacks in the dust just a few years ago. While a well-developed piggyback can be utilized for a decent (price point based they are cheap) result in a current vehicle, it is sorely lacking if compared directly to ANY of the flash-tune devices/software. When/if any of you Raptor enthusiasts decide to do your own engine tuning via an aftermarket software/user interface flash tune, you will discover the almost unlimited potential available from the latest devices/software. I'm loving it! The main area I'm lacking in knowledge/experience is in the auto trans tuning, but I'll learn it quickly.

https://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/606/01/


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[FORZDA 1]

https://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/606/01/


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Thanks for the note. I know most of the folks on this forum are quite young or very old and attention challenged, so next time I'll make a rather poor attempt to break my posts into easily read snippets, so the attention challenged won't get lost...

 

[AKLA]

I’m not trying to rain on your parade....



But it’s not without a trace.



Ford and their engineers can see if the truck was driven with manipulated boost pressure and a manipulated data stream to the ECU.



Even after you remove the device.



If your drivetrain fails.... they’re going to be able to point their finger.



It’s a common myth that these piggyback tuners like to propagate to give you a reason to buy their product.

Honestly I’m not worried about it. I’ve been using this method on multiple platforms. This is only the beginning. This product flourished in the bmw market. Hopefully it will do the same on this platform. Eventually there will be a awesome tune that will provide good numbers but time will tell.


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[Gregger]

Do we know for sure it's traceable, because if it is, I'll just Whipple and call it good.

 

[FORZDA 1]

Piggyback tuners are not traceable. The whole concept it to "intercept" the oem signals and manipulate them so the oem tune uses them as "normal". This is why the subject tune device must connect between the ECU and the applicable sensors that are needed. As a result, the value the ECU "sees" is less or more, depending on the intended result, than the actual value. The ECU has no idea that it is being spoofed.

 

[Guy]

Except you’re not telling the whole story.

Ford can pull boost logs and look for overboost, which is how these little gizmatchis operate.

They can also look at the most recent fuel trim
Logs.

The ECU is quite robust. It’ll take them a grand total of 30 minutes to know you manipulated the data stream going to the ECU and generated tuning outside of spec.

Bottom line... if they want to catch you. They will.

A tune is much safer and affords much more horsepower for the money. If you want to be very conservative, go with Whipple or Livernois.

Piggyback tuners are not traceable. The whole concept it to "intercept" the oem signals and manipulate them so the oem tune uses them as "normal". This is why the subject tune device must connect between the ECU and the applicable sensors that are needed. As a result, the value the ECU "sees" is less or more, depending on the intended result, than the actual value. The ECU has no idea that it is being spoofed.

 

[smurfslayer]

The new cars data log quite a bit of data, and what the piggyback units are doing is -generally- fooling the computer into delivering more boost, so the truck thinks it’s only pushing 14psi, so it ups the boost to make it hit 16. In reality, it’s pushing 16psi already, so you get ~18 psi. I picked these numbers for reference, and again it’s a generality.

The piggyback changes nothing permanently.

The Tune modifies the ECU(?) programming altogether, well outside the parameters that Ford knows are acceptable. I’m sure it’s hashed and commented as well. This will be plainly obvious to any mechanic that the computer has been reprogrammed.

The piggy back will be leaving incompatible trace readings. boost will only be showing at 80% of maximum and if there’s any historical comparison data, it will show similar capping of boost where all other values like TPS show something different. If someone actually crunches the table numbers it will become clear that the truck was not delivering full boost, yet shows symptoms of overboost elsewhere.

Obviously, a tune from a reputable vendor will be more precise, allow more updates such as transmission tuning, etc.

I don’t think what these guys are claiming is necessarily a ‘bad deal’ or even comparable to a tune by way of cost; people pay full price for the pedal commander and it produces zero extra hp. Obviously the chipwerke was not even tested on our trucks, at least here we have a Raptor campaigning one of these piggy back units. The hp claimed isn’t super high, but then getting greedy would be a recipe for busted motors...