Anyone using Water/Methanol Injection on an EB Raptor

[reaper1441]

you carry 55 gallon drums with you on trips? that is dedication, my friend!

The $300 sensor is the cheapest part of your equation. Messing with the computer to get it to accept the signal from said sensor, then ensuring that it will work with the Ford PCM in the way that you describe is where your cost (and risk) begins to skyrocket.

The rough estimate, any time that I've messed with e85 on go-fast stuff that is forced induction is closer to building fueling to support 2x the volume vs an additional 30%.

while your solution might work for pounding pavement or being within fill up distance at an e85 pump, or being able to carry enough e85 go make it back to a pump in gas cans, it would definitely NOT work for the places that I head with my truck.

I'm also not really certain of how much benefit you'd glean from all this work to just switch to e85.

it makes some sense for a race vehicle with support in place, but not really for being in the middle of nowhere, rolling solo or with a buddy.

To each their own, i guess.

Are you people not reading all of my post? Running an eca doesn't require any kind of support vehicle. You can run any combination of fuel at any time unlike a race gas tune. It's more convenient in remote areas than ****, or a race gas tune. Also the ecoboost on e85 will hit the limit of the stock turbos before knocking and can make substantially more powet than **** injection can. It will also run substantially cooler.
And it's not much work. It's 2 fuel line connections and one wire. I've litterally done it to hundreds of vehicles that have to switch fuels constantly with unknown level of ethanol all across the country. It AUTOMATICALLY ADJUSTS BOOST AND TIMING TO ALL ETHANOL LEVELS OF WHATEVER YOU pour into the tank. Runs cooler and has the ability to make more power than the stock engine can handle.

---------- Post added at 06:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:21 PM ----------

you carry 55 gallon drums with you on trips? that is dedication, my friend!

The $300 sensor is the cheapest part of your equation. Messing with the computer to get it to accept the signal from said sensor, then ensuring that it will work with the Ford PCM in the way that you describe is where your cost (and risk) begins to skyrocket.

The rough estimate, any time that I've messed with e85 on go-fast stuff that is forced induction is closer to building fueling to support 2x the volume vs an additional 30%.

while your solution might work for pounding pavement or being within fill up distance at an e85 pump, or being able to carry enough e85 go make it back to a pump in gas cans, it would definitely NOT work for the places that I head with my truck.

I'm also not really certain of how much benefit you'd glean from all this work to just switch to e85.

it makes some sense for a race vehicle with support in place, but not really for being in the middle of nowhere, rolling solo or with a buddy.

To each their own, i guess.

Are you people not reading all of my post? Running an eca doesn't require any kind of support vehicle. You can run any combination of fuel at any time unlike a race gas tune. It's more convenient in remote areas than ****, or a race gas tune. Also the ecoboost on e85 will hit the limit of the stock turbos before knocking and can make substantially more powet than **** injection can. It will also run substantially cooler.
And it's not much work. It's 2 fuel line connections and one wire. I've litterally done it to hundreds of vehicles that have to switch fuels constantly with unknown level of ethanol all across the country. It AUTOMATICALLY ADJUSTS BOOST AND TIMING TO ALL ETHANOL LEVELS OF WHATEVER YOU pour into the tank. Runs cooler and has the ability to make more power than the stock engine can handle. Also this has already been done to thousands of ford ecms. The raptor forum is just laughably behind the times as far as technology goes.

 

[Booth9999]

Are you people not reading all of my post? Running an eca doesn't require any kind of support vehicle. You can run any combination of fuel at any time unlike a race gas tune. It's more convenient in remote areas than ****, or a race gas tune. Also the ecoboost on e85 will hit the limit of the stock turbos before knocking and can make substantially more powet than **** injection can. It will also run substantially cooler.
And it's not much work. It's 2 fuel line connections and one wire. I've litterally done it to hundreds of vehicles that have to switch fuels constantly with unknown level of ethanol all across the country. It AUTOMATICALLY ADJUSTS BOOST AND TIMING TO ALL ETHANOL LEVELS OF WHATEVER YOU pour into the tank. Runs cooler and has the ability to make more power than the stock engine can handle.

---------- Post added at 06:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:21 PM ----------




Are you people not reading all of my post? Running an eca doesn't require any kind of support vehicle. You can run any combination of fuel at any time unlike a race gas tune. It's more convenient in remote areas than ****, or a race gas tune. Also the ecoboost on e85 will hit the limit of the stock turbos before knocking and can make substantially more powet than **** injection can. It will also run substantially cooler.
And it's not much work. It's 2 fuel line connections and one wire. I've litterally done it to hundreds of vehicles that have to switch fuels constantly with unknown level of ethanol all across the country. It AUTOMATICALLY ADJUSTS BOOST AND TIMING TO ALL ETHANOL LEVELS OF WHATEVER YOU pour into the tank. Runs cooler and has the ability to make more power than the stock engine can handle. Also this has already been done to thousands of ford ecms. The raptor forum is just laughably behind the times as far as technology goes.

Thank you for the knowledge, I am very interested in a long dedicated post of **** injection. This is one performance mod I have never dabbled in.

 

[ken4fly]

I'm considering methanol for my 2018. I've done all of the bolt on I can, minus larger turbos. I'm tuned by 5 star tuning. They are working on a **** kit tune right now. Probably going with a snow performance and a 5 star tune. Also considering a custom dyno tune instead of a canned tune from 5 star.

Ultimately, larger turbos would be the way to go for massive jumps in power. I have to consider what else I need to beef up before I tackle larger turbos.

I think 750-800hp is my goal in the long run. I don't want to be the guinea pig either.

 

[blk91gt]

I called MPT and they felt water / **** would be the nest step for power aside from turbos. I would love a big turbo setup but am not ready for that. Some have said our turbos are pushed with just a tune. Anyone know how much the stock turbos can handle reliably. My STi with all boltons and costume tune went 126000 no problems. It was going strong when I sold it.
I hope the Raptor can do the same....

 

[blk91gt]

I found this video. It's a 2015 F-150 on a dyno at MPT. They do three pulls on the dyno stock, MPT PRX-93 and then MPT PRX-93 w/ ****.

It looks like the Methanol kit is worth 30ish HP and 6 ft-lbs. I am guessing the Raptor would do about the same??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj9G5FRf7jw

 

[Ryan Shanahan]

FYI - I worked with Ford for my 2020 Raptor to switch to E85. The dealer who has done several Dealer Certified Raptor conversions recommended E85 over ****/Water due to the feasibility and easiness of updating few fuel lines, code and ECM. Dealer also recommended Palm Beach Dyno or Lund for any questions as that is who they initially worked with to do conversions before having a few techs become experts.

Palm Beach Dyno recommended to only update the fuel injectors with Injector Dynamics ID1050x and a tune....that legit?

http://www.pbdyno.com/Injector-Dynamics-ID1050x-for-2018-F150-w-Whipple_p_162.html

 

[TYRCS]

all that said, why not just order a freaking 55 gallon drum of sunoco 260 GTX to your door. You'll be at 104 octane and not need to hack a GM sensor into a truck that is much more complex than anyone thought it was at the onset.

If you search a little and make some calls, you'll end up getting it delivered for around 3.60-3.75 per gallon.

That would mean, since you need roughly 2x the fuel when running e85, your e85 cost, plus the cost of all this sensor wizardry would need to come in at an effective $1.80 per gallon, amortized over however many miles you plan to potentially drive the truck.

The juice just aint worth the squeeze.

If you are thinking you're gonna find corn fuel in the middle of nowhere (read: anywhere near the kind of expanse you need to turn the truck loose offroad), you're nuts.

I tend to believe very few have the coin to bring a chase crew with a fueling tower and 100s of gallons of the right fuel when they go out to blow off steam casually.

Hell, it is near impossible to find even 93 octane off the beaten path in Mexico. Usually, you have to settle for 85 or 87.

So again, my question would be, WHY? Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

the cobb accessport allows you to pick in choose which tune you wanna use at any given moment for travel when you can't find the desired fuel.

 

[Gsteve]

I found this video. It's a 2015 F-150 on a dyno at MPT. They do three pulls on the dyno stock, MPT PRX-93 and then MPT PRX-93 w/ ****.

It looks like the Methanol kit is worth 30ish HP and 6 ft-lbs. I am guessing the Raptor would do about the same??

all that for 30 hp??? nope...

 

[Badgertits]

all that for 30 hp??? nope...

I was curious what the responses would be on this endeavor...I don’t see the need for more power/performance in this truck over what a tune & some colder plugs alone Can do. If you are running offroad a lot or live in a consistently hot climate I could see upgrading the intercooler @ some point.

stock trim the drivetrain will outrun the suspension offroad, tuned it’ll outrun the brakes on road lol!!

I run **** injection on my cammed/blown C5 Z06....& it also most likely doesn’t “increase” power by much more than what the other mods are already doing - but my understanding is that it does allow for the vehicle to make peak power more safely & consistently & helps everything run cooler internally.

on my vette setup I’m running straight methanol (VP M1) & it goes into the windshield washer reservoir (have a tiny add-on one for the few times I do need to get the bugs off lol) - anyone who does run ****- my tuner was very adamant about getting quality fuel & no “blends” or additives FWIW - not all brands are created equal, you should be able to find VP Fuels someplace near you- if not Torco brand **** can be purchased in small quantities through amazon.

It’s a **** addicts alky control kit comes w/ all the hoses/fittings/fuel pump/wiring/controller/dual nozzle etc I’m guessing a setup like this runs $800-$1000 in parts anyhow (priced into an entire SC build in my case)

Like I said - **** isn’t just about making power, it’s particularly relevant in booster applications b/c Injecting into the inlet tube it can help reduce IATs BIG TIME - like over 50-80% cooler (which on a forum w/ people obsessed w/ intercooler upgrades & running offroad in desert is probably worth noting)

also of note- it’s a great cleaner (don’t spill on paint, if u do don’t wipe it - immediately dump water on it) - all the catch cans in the world aren’t gonna spit shine the guts of an engine like consistent **** injection will.

also acts like an octane booster prevents pre-detonation/knock/pinging etc.

I don’t know much bout running E85 for performance other than it is difficult to get where I live in MA- however in my 2014 GMC Sierra w/ 5.3 V8 it had a pre-load tune from factory to run on E85 & take advantage of it too- while I’m sure nothing like E85 w/ custom tune, after guzzlin a 1/2 tank or so & fully adjusting the 5.3 would be making like 90% of the HP & equal TQ to the 6.2 or something along those lines. Bumped it up good- but also fuel economy dropped by bout 20% lol

Alternatively it’s hard to say how much worse “fuel economy” In 650whp vette was damaged by **** hahaha, but the **** tank seems to drop in tandem w/ Gas tank Under normal conditions but the more wot driving you do the quicker you’ll burn through it.

as for the cooling effects of **** I’ll leave ya w/ this- went back/forth w/ my tuner/builder On how I wanted to proceed w/ vette build (stroke 350 to 383 & go all forged internals & heads, swap for an LS7 w/ donkey **** cam, turbo, pro charger vs A&A etc) & basically when it came to supercharging/FI he told me if there was any chance I’d wind up running it on track (particularly autocross not dragstrip) then go w/ **** injection

truck is my DD tho I wouldn’t even consider doing any of this stuff to it BUT if I were?

First thing I’d want to find out once & for all- WHAT, if any, engine parts are shared w/ the Ford GT? I have read that the crank, connecting rods, pistons were all same & forged- but the GT has all kinds of other truck stuff oiling system, cylinder walls, lighter valves, cam profiles, bigger turbos, fuel system etc all GT specific. I ask that b/c I think should be a determining factor in how to proceed making reliably bigger power on these trucks.

if it does have forged crank/connecting rods I’d probably go w/ upgraded turbos.....

 

[WC114]

I’m surprised the e85 was only a 20% loss in fuel economy. Thought it would’ve been more