5.2L Supercharged V8 Confirmed

[EricM]

I disagree. You ONLY measure torque, because that is what the engine produces. Torque is the actual force the engine produces. Power is not a force. HP is always a calculation.

 

[mezger]

I disagree. You ONLY measure torque, because that is what the engine produces. HP is always a calculation. Torque is the actual force the engine produces. Work/power are not forces.

Torque isn't a force, it's rxF, a spinor, a subset of vectors. Power is not work, it's dW/dt and a scalar.

An ICE produces power and torque, they're different physical definitions.

 

[mezger]

Power tells you the force that can be produced at a given speed.

 

[EricM]

Splitting hairs to argue torque isn't a force due to the moment arm, since that pretty much assumed when you talk about torque, but sure.

Here's my final argument. You can stall a motor to zero RPMs, and still get a measurable torque from it. You cannot measure the HP at that condition and then back out the torque number- because HP is derived, but the torque is still 100% measurable. One is measurable, the other is calculated. I will give you you cannot stall an ICE to zero RPMs.

 

[mezger]

hp measured at your condition is 0

I'm not splitting hairs, the words you're using have very precise straightforward definitions and applications, your argument misuses them.

That you're arguing that torque is measured and hp is calculated is incorrect; the measurement of torque is also a calculation from various physical parameters of whatever tool you're using to measure it (deflection of a shaft? measured from a dyno? etc.)

Both have very real ramifications, both are measurable... when you get down to it, all measurements of anything are derived.

ICEngines (short for heat engine? Show me torque in the context of heat) produce both power and torque, two different units. It bugs me that people hang up on torque because power is the useful unit for an engine.

Now power at low RPM... or better yet, the shape of the power curve... I agree that's important in many applications.

 

[EricM]

hp measured at your condition is 0

But the torque is not 0. See what I mean? Torque is a measurable thing- HP is a calculation.

I'm with you on it all being calculated- but what is the "root" of what is being calculated? Strain gauges are being used to measure the amount a piece of metal is being bent by the engine on the dyno stand. They are calculating the torque put into that bar, because that is what is being produced. Everything else is calculated using that torque number and the RPMs of the engine.

 

[mezger]

I'm with you on it all being calculated- but what is the "root" of what is being calculated? Strain gauges are being used to measure the amount a piece of metal is being bent by the engine on the dyno stand. They are calculating the torque put into that bar, because that is what is being produced. Everything else is calculated using that torque number and the RPMs of the engine.

But if the bar has a rotational velocity, power is also being produced. That's the rub. If things are not moving, then torque is interesting. It's also interesting for determining what the engine will do to its clutch and input shaft, but that's beside the point.

ICEs effectively convert chemical energy to heat and then convert some of the heat to force*distance, then convert some of the force*distance to torque*θ, and they do it at a particular rate. The rate of these energy conversions is power, and the power from each of these processes exists. The torque you're speaking of only shows up at the output shaft portion of this. It's a heat engine.

I kinda forgot what we were discussing lol... going back to what I initially quoted,

All engines only produce torque- period. HP is just a calculated number.

I disagree. Engines convert energy from one form to another (i.e. chemical to heat to mechanical) and the rate at which they do it is power. Engines produce power.

 

[mezger]

That's the difference between the 450hp ecoboost and my arms + a breaker bar. Both can be made to produce a similar amount of torque, but one can convert chemical energy to mechanical energy a hellofa lot faster.

 

[sher-bant]

I went to Detroit and saw it in person.

I have a 2017 ruby red 350, and IM"honest"O...I like the 350 more than the new 500.

I wish I didn't because I'd go after the new one. Mine is killer. It's got a ton of upgrades, is supercharged putting down more HP than the new one, and finally dialed in. STILL I'd prefer Ford made a sexier one for me to lust after.

Plus no manual transmission = NO lust.

 

[Michaelgrimaud]

Always liked how ford kept the manual transmission in the mustang. Personally in a sports car I want to be able to shift thru the gears and have fun with the car. No desire to have paddle shifters in a car like that. Takes all the fun out of it.