2020: Two Warranty Case Studies & Good Video

[MrT]

My question is as follows:

The lighter 37" tire vs heavier oem height aftermarket tire. At some point the weight difference will negate the leverage. My question is do you know where that occurs? You brought up the math so I am curious if it's actually opinion or math? If it's math I would like to see it. To simplify things the examples I gave will work for a basis. All on stock rims, I am talking tire height and weight differences and their affect.

1.And decreasing the weight reduces it.
2. I am asking about a stock height tire 10lbs heavier vs a 37" tire 10lbs lighter(20lb swing)
3. Weight also plays a role.
4. In your scenerio yes. I would love to see the math on my example.

Note 1: lets push this to the extreme then work back to the real world. Take a 10lb 37" vs a 100lb 35" tire. Which one is more problematic? At some point the line is crossed, my question is where. I think the weight has as big an affect as diameter in my earlier example. I may be wrong which is why I would like to see the math.

Note 2: Stock wheels, the 37 is lighter. Yes I understand the leverage changed by 1" but the weight swung 20lbs multiplied.

Note 3: I would hope so.

Note 4: where's the math?

Agreed.

 

[KAH 24]

My question is as follows:

The lighter 37" tire vs heavier oem height aftermarket tire. At some point the weight difference will negate the leverage. My question is do you know where that occurs? You brought up the math so I am curious if it's actually opinion or math? If it's math I would like to see it. To simplify things the examples I gave will work for a basis. All on stock rims, I am talking tire height and weight differences and their affect.

1.And decreasing the weight reduces it.
2. I am asking about a stock height tire 10lbs heavier vs a 37" tire 10lbs lighter(20lb swing)
3. Weight also plays a role.
4. In your scenerio yes. I would love to see the math on my example.

Note 1: lets push this to the extreme then work back to the real world. Take a 10lb 37" vs a 100lb 35" tire. Which one is more problematic? At some point the line is crossed, my question is where. I think the weight has as big an affect as diameter in my earlier example. I may be wrong which is why I would like to see the math.

Note 2: Stock wheels, the 37 is lighter. Yes I understand the leverage changed by 1" but the weight swung 20lbs multiplied.

Note 3: I would hope so.

Note 4: where's the math?

@MrT

Sir/Ma’am,

I provided the math as you requested—please do your calculations. OEM engineers did the calculations.

You are welcome to do what you wish with your Raptor—you bought it, enjoy it. Do what you wish.

If you wish to do the “oops it broke and I swap it back”—then do so understanding that it is Federal/State fraud and unethical. Proceed as you wish.

Please note that OEM warranties are a legal contract.

Pay for “kaboom” and contact the aftermarket company to make you whole.

 

[Jakenbake]

@MrT

Sir/Ma’am,

I provided the math as you requested—please do your calculations. OEM engineers did the calculations.

You are welcome to do what you wish with your Raptor—you bought it, enjoy it. Do what you wish.

If you wish to do the “oops it broke and I swap it back”—then do so understanding that it is Federal/State fraud and unethical. Proceed as you wish.

Please note that OEM warranties are a legal contract.

Pay for “kaboom” and contact the aftermarket company to make you whole.

@MrT

OEM specs and parameters exist.

Please be accountable for your lift kits, suspension spacers, larger diameter wheels/rims, larger diameter tires—and understand that an OEM drivetrain warranty by Ford, GM, Toyota, Lexus——or Santa Claus automotive corporation is not liable.

NOTE: Ask the aftermarket company to back you if your Raptor goes kaboom, or something fails after you alter the vehicle.

The drivetrain (engine/transmission/suspension/diffs/transfer case/axles/hubs/gears)— is the most highly stressed (and expensive) part of a vehicle.

ECUs capture everything you do to your vehicle—and “no trace” doesn’t exist. Never will.

Pimping the ride is fine—but ask the aftermarket to pay for anything that goes wrong after you leave OEM specs/parameters.

@MrT

This is why OEMs support having systems in place to ensure that—NOTHING, NOTHING is erased from the ECU—and all vehicle systems.

Simple solution is to block access to the OBD—but that would be communism, as it wouldn’t allow for people to make decisions.

I may be misread this situation, but this seemed like @MrT was trying to have a theoretical conversation rather than get you to admit that certain modifications are ok and that they should be warranties or not.

 

[MrT]

I think KAH24 is having a different discussion than I am. Maybe you would be more comfortable knowing I have not modified my truck. I would not undo a modification to fraud a dealership. I am not sure how or why you went that direction when I made my question quite clear and it had nothing to do with a warranty at all, never did. If you be so kind plug the numbers in using the example weights that I gave so I as well as others can see them. To me there is something missing there but I may be wrong.

 

[MrT]

@MrT

Sir/Ma’am,

I provided the math as you requested—please do your calculations. OEM engineers did the calculations.

You are welcome to do what you wish with your Raptor—you bought it, enjoy it. Do what you wish.

If you wish to do the “oops it broke and I swap it back”—then do so understanding that it is Federal/State fraud and unethical. Proceed as you wish.

Please note that OEM warranties are a legal contract.

Pay for “kaboom” and contact the aftermarket company to make you whole.

It will be great if you could show the calcs since you are familiar with them.

Thanks for the permission? I didn't ask for it but ok.

Cool? I am not sure what that has to do with my question?

I may be in the wrong thread.

 

[GordoJay]

The person that brought this up specified the 37" tire and wheel combination as lighter than oem. For an example I have been looking at a set that is 10lb lighter than oem. I understand leverage but I also understand the affect weight has in a tire and wheel. The twisting forces involved are multiplied as well as unsprung weights overall affect is multiplied 6x I believe. I would argue a 10lb heavier oem diameter tire would be far harder on the drivetrain the 10lb lighter 37. That's a 20lb swing multiplied by? Only 1/2 the height difference will be seen as leverage so 1". Using math can you show the overall affect of each example? I haven't found much on the leverage aspect vs weight yet(looking)

OEM 100lb
Stock diameter +10lb at the tire. 110lb
37" 90lb

You'll need a powerful computer, detailed specs, a good model, and a lot of time to do what you ask. You need to look at hundreds of different parts in thousands of possible operating conditions to see what forces, stresses, and strains occur in each part. Much of the engineering that goes into the original design is doing such simulations and ensuring that parts won't break. That's why there's a spec for tire size. Ford did that work and is comfortable warranting it.

 

[Jakenbake]

You'll need a powerful computer, detailed specs, a good model, and a lot of time to do what you ask. You need to look at hundreds of different parts in thousands of possible operating conditions to see what forces, stresses, and strains occur in each part. Much of the engineering that goes into the original design is doing such simulations and ensuring that parts won't break. That's why there's a spec for tire size. Ford did that work and is comfortable warranting it.

I would think it would be fair to compare two scenarios in a vacuum for the purpose of conversation. Not how a given vehicle would handle the change.

Similar to comparing the stiffness of two structures in a vacuum (not a literal one) does not require knowing what they are currently loaded with.

 

[DFS]

Rotational inertia (article) | Khan Academy

Learn how the distribution of mass can affect the difficulty of causing angular acceleration.

www.khanacademy.org

You are welcome to take the equations KAH gave you, apply your own variables, and report back to us. Maybe you have MATLAB handy and time to ****.

 

[GordoJay]

I would think it would be fair to compare two scenarios in a vacuum for the purpose of conversation. Not how a given vehicle would handle the change.

Similar to comparing the stiffness of two structures in a vacuum (not a literal one) does not require knowing what they are currently loaded with.

If we're going to compare in a vacuum, I will tackle the static case. It makes absolutely no difference whatsoever.

If you want a comparison under actual driving conditions, you need to specify those conditions and which part of the steering, suspension, or drivetrain interests you.

 

[MrT]

You'll need a powerful computer, detailed specs, a good model, and a lot of time to do what you ask. You need to look at hundreds of different parts in thousands of possible operating conditions to see what forces, stresses, and strains occur in each part. Much of the engineering that goes into the original design is doing such simulations and ensuring that parts won't break. That's why there's a spec for tire size. Ford did that work and is comfortable warranting it.

Like cam phasors? Just kidding...

All that is great and may apply if we could find someone wanting to argue about the forces larger heavier tires exerted on say a unit bearing, a ujoint or any number of parts and why larger tires may be reason for denial of coverage.

Thankfully non of it applies to my question.