2018 3.5 eco boost problems

[mezger]

So to be clear

1) There is no 'low oil level' idiot light|message
2) The oil gauge is a low pressure idiot light masquerading as a proportional gauge

?

The nonlinear coolant and temp gauges in other cars are annoying enough, but this is a pretty big miss. BRB, checking if forscan can rectify some of this asshattery.

edit: at least according to Taurus forum, there is an oil pressure switch as HeavyAssault indicated, and they don't think there is a more granular oil pressure sending unit, so nothing to Forscan. Annoying that dashboard real estate is wasted in that way.

 

[kid icarus]

I think GM might be the only manufacturer that has functional gauges. The oil pressure gauge on them is a bit disconcerting at first, but nice to know how it works.

 

[EricM]

So to be clear

1) There is no 'low oil level' idiot light|message
2) The oil gauge is a low pressure idiot light masquerading as a proportional gauge

?

Yes. Oil pressure signal is just a switch. I think it switches around 7 PSI or so. Fords have been like that for a good 30+ years at least.

 

[mezger]

Yes. Oil pressure signal is just a switch. I think it switches around 7 PSI or so. Fords have been like that for a good 30+ years at least.

Fair enough; this is my first Ford. Actually, I'm more annoyed by the lack of low oil level switch + light than I am by the lack of good oil pressure telemetry, and also more annoyed by the fake gauge than the lack of telemetry... but I'll get over it.

Many of my cars over the years have used oil (in particular BMW S65 and an LS6), and and it's nice to have an idiot light in my face as soon as they get a quart low. My 3.5 EB doesn't seem to be using oil so far, but going forward I'm going to check its oil ~every other fill up.

 

[HeavyAssault]

lack of low oil level switch + light

The same thing is being accomplished by monitoring/using oil pressure. It becomes a matter of using a reliable point in the motor/oil path that will give the best "true" pressure reading.

Regarding an oil level sensor or using the dip stick:
Let's add in the possibility that people are running the truck in a level stance. Physically the oil level could change due to the reference point in the pan. The leveled stance gives a "false positive" that the oil level may be over/under the recommend point on the dip stick. SO that would lead to people over/under filling the oil just cause of the physical indication on the dip stick.

This was a VERY common "owner issue" with Super Duty trucks running leveled or just a bit nose high for both the coolant levels and the oil levels.

 

[mezger]

The same thing is being accomplished by monitoring/using oil pressure. It becomes a matter of using a reliable point in the motor/oil path that will give the best "true" pressure reading.

My expectation is that until you start sucking air... at which point it'll be a very expensive problem... oil pressure is independent of oil level... therefore for this use I like the oil level gauge and/or warning.

As far as an actual oil pressure gauge is concerned, I've used it to identify a main bearing issue before an engine completely destroyed itself... but that's a corner case.

WRT the false positives, agree.

 

[HeavyAssault]

oil pressure is independent of oil level.

Can you explain this better?

As I would suggest the demands of the system pumping oil creates the proper pressure with the proper supply. Should the oil level (or better put the amount of oil) in the system be low your pressure may drop. So one may see proper PSI readings at idle or other operating conditions, you could get low PSI numbers when on heavy demand operations.

 

[mezger]

Can you explain this better?

As I would suggest the demands of the system pumping oil creates the proper pressure with the proper supply. Should the oil level (or better put the amount of oil) in the system be low your pressure may drop. So one may see proper PSI readings at idle or other operating conditions, you could get low PSI numbers when on heavy demand operations.

The way I picture the oiling system in my head is there's a pressurized side between the pump and the various bearings, and then after the bearings and lifters and etc., the oil dumps into low pressure cavities and runs back down to the reservoir (oil pan for the raptor)... and the reservoir is never empty. I picture the pan as having proper baffling, geometry, and depth such that the pickup(s) can (almost?) always supply the pump with oil, and there's a pretty good oil/gas (air) ratio supplied.

If the above is the way things work, the only way I could explain noticeable pressure dropping due to oil level would be because the pickup would have to be sucking air for some non-trivial portion of the time.

I don't see that happening under power without main, cam, and rod bearings getting toasted very quickly. My expectation is that the pickup(s) remain(s) submerged almost all of the time -> the pump wouldn't know the difference between 3 quarts and 6 quarts, thus the pressure would be approximately the same (with some small difference due to a smaller column of oil above the pickup).

I haven't paid super close attention to my cars with proper oil pressure gauges, but I haven't noticed their pressures responding to oil level. I see them mainly respond to oil temp and RPM. In the case where I caught the bearings failure, there was a little dip in oil pressure as I swept the engine past its torque peak at WOT...

 

[zemuron99]

Agree w/smurfslayer. That's why we can get numeric values above the sweep gauges on the gas, water temp and either tranny temp or boost, but nothing on the oil gauge. As long as the pressure switch is closed, it reads about 2/3 scale and never varies. The 19's have some added software capability to display some parameters the 17/18 displays won't, but I still don't think true oil pressure is available. And far as I know, no one has even mentioned an oil level sensor in them. You just have to monitor it w/the dipstick. I'm pretty **** on this front, so I check after every tankful or every long drive, whichever comes first (often the long drive i.e. day trip somewhere). So far I'm lucky and have minimal consumption, but some have reported as much as 1 qt/1000 miles, which Ford claims is 'within spec', though that would bother me considerably. So yeah, it's 'one of those useless gauges that doesn't move unless there's a big problem.'

 

[Doctor Mike]

Goblues38, your sarcastic response deeply appreciated. For further edification, truck was purchased as new from dealer with 3000 miles on it. All fluid levels normal at time of purchase. High performance engine no excuse for that amount of oil consumption and oil light indicator woefully lacking. Something definitely wrong with this engine and ford knows it. Am awaiting further news from them. Truck has been at dealer for 2 1/2 weeks now