2017 Engine replaced, same issue again. Lengthy write-up

[rtmozingo]

Yeah, that would be strange if a catch can had an impact on it, as I don't understand how that would impact the cam phasers. Someone explain if able.

The idea is that the can is catching oil that would be instead feeding the phasers. I don't have a sufficient comprehension level of the flow path to be able to comment on that, tho. Someone that had a can and had the issue postulated the idea.

 

[8WOOD]

I don't think that much oil travels through the PVC system on startup and when not under load to have any impact. Plus the oil that goes through the PVC system is usually vaporized in the air from gases escaping the crankcase. A catch can only collects like a tablespoon of oil very 1000 miles, unless you have excessive blow by from failing piston rings, or excessive wear and tear on the piston and cylinder wall. The only reason manufacturers "reroute" the dirty air from the crankcase is to meet emissions requirements, in the old days they just just vented to air.

 

[OPT PRIME]

Other manufacturers use cam phasers? My understanding is that Ford came up with it, and it was exclusive to them. Pretty clever system, but complexity comes with a cost.

Variable valve timing started around 1960 and Toyota’s VVT dates back to 1991. I believe Fords first experience with this was via the Ford Taurus SHO which had a 215 HP 7,000 RPM 3.0 designed by Yamaha Marine. The reclocking of the cams is handled by a “cam phaser.”

Honda’s system (no longer used) was VTEC. VTEC varied in that each camshaft has two distinct profiles. Fingers between the cam loves and valves were activate or disengaged to control which lift profile was in use.

Even an OHV V-8 as used by GM (later LT series) have variable cam timing.

Very common. Bad cam phasers? Not so much.

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[k-rub]

I had two different rattles going on last year. One was at startup that went away pretty quickly. The noise originated from the top of the motor. I went in and asked them to check for PCM/TCM updates. They updated both and the top rattle went away. Haven't heard it since.

The other rattle was a similar sound but was coming from the lower part of the motor and I could hear it next to the wheelwell mostly on the drivers side. This noise didn't go away. It just kept rattling even after warm. I brought it in, the dealership diagnosed it as cam phaser rattling, and they ordered the parts. The day before I dropped it off to get fixed, my new SP 592 spark plugs arrived. I installed them and that rattle was completely gone. The truck idled, started, and drove much better. I cancelled my service appointment and I haven't heard any rattles in over a year. The dealership thinks the rattle may have been spark plug knock.

I had run a 5Star tune for a short while. I think the tune fouled the stock plugs because they were super burnt up. The new plugs made everything much better.

I have a catch can and the EBOV is vented to air now. I don't get a whole lot of oil buildup in the can but I do get oil residue on the top of the skidplate where the EBOV points.

No hesitations and no rattles. 31k miles and I beat on this truck pretty good. Now the transmission is an entirely different story...

 

[raisins]

I had two different rattles going on last year. One was at startup that went away pretty quickly. The noise originated from the top of the motor. I went in and asked them to check for PCM/TCM updates. They updated both and the top rattle went away. Haven't heard it since.

The other rattle was a similar sound but was coming from the lower part of the motor and I could hear it next to the wheelwell mostly on the drivers side. This noise didn't go away. It just kept rattling even after warm. I brought it in, the dealership diagnosed it as cam phaser rattling, and they ordered the parts. The day before I dropped it off to get fixed, my new SP 592 spark plugs arrived. I installed them and that rattle was completely gone. The truck idled, started, and drove much better. I cancelled my service appointment and I haven't heard any rattles in over a year. The dealership thinks the rattle may have been spark plug knock.

I had run a 5Star tune for a short while. I think the tune fouled the stock plugs because they were super burnt up. The new plugs made everything much better.

I have a catch can and the EBOV is vented to air now. I don't get a whole lot of oil buildup in the can but I do get oil residue on the top of the skidplate where the EBOV points.

No hesitations and no rattles. 31k miles and I beat on this truck pretty good. Now the transmission is an entirely different story...

That's very interesting how the rattles went away. Do you have a link to those spark plugs you used by any chance? It's extremely odd because I was planning on dropping the truck off today, but all day yesterday I didn't hear the rattle once. Whereas before that, I was hearing it more often. I haven't done anything besides detail the truck lol. Before I do anything else, I want to swap out the plugs for the same ones you used, maybe there will be a benefit who knows. I'll have to ask them about the PCM/TCM updates as well.

 

[k-rub]

I made a typo. The plugs were the SP542 plugs. I'm not saying that's exactly the case for yours. But it won't hurt in anyway. I was running high boost with that 5Star tune. You can probably buy the plugs at a Ford dealership. Here's links for the plugs:

https://www.fordraptorforum.com/threads/sp542-thread.60306/
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00OAKP3B2/?tag=fordraptorforum-20

For the TCM/PCM update your truck will need to be hooked up to the IDS system. The service advisor won't be able to see any updates from his computer. I had to convince the advisor to send the truck back to the shop to look for updates, which there were. Here's a link about that:

https://www.fordraptorforum.com/thr...st-pcm-tcm-update-version.63575/#post-1293590

On a sidenote, I don't let the dealership change my oil. Don't trust them because they didn't replace my oil filter, left the original air filter in place when I paid for a new one, and left the truck a quart low.

That's very interesting how the rattles went away. Do you have a link to those spark plugs you used by any chance? It's extremely odd because I was planning on dropping the truck off today, but all day yesterday I didn't hear the rattle once. Whereas before that, I was hearing it more often. I haven't done anything besides detail the truck lol. Before I do anything else, I want to swap out the plugs for the same ones you used, maybe there will be a benefit who knows. I'll have to ask them about the PCM/TCM updates as well.

 

[OPT PRIME]

I made a typo. The plugs were the SP542 plugs. I'm not saying that's exactly the case for yours. But it won't hurt in anyway. I was running high boost with that 5Star tune. You can probably buy the plugs at a Ford dealership. Here's links for the plugs:

https://www.fordraptorforum.com/threads/sp542-thread.60306/
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00OAKP3B2/?tag=fordraptorforum-20

For the TCM/PCM update your truck will need to be hooked up to the IDS system. The service advisor won't be able to see any updates from his computer. I had to convince the advisor to send the truck back to the shop to look for updates, which there were. Here's a link about that:

https://www.fordraptorforum.com/thr...st-pcm-tcm-update-version.63575/#post-1293590

On a sidenote, I don't let the dealership change my oil. Don't trust them because they didn't replace my oil filter, left the original air filter in place when I paid for a new one, and left the truck a quart low.

A buddy of mine asked why I change my own oil as we drove to pickup his truck from the dealer. He was ready to leave and I suggested looking under the hood. Reluctantly he does, dipstick was missing.


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[ericwudi0830]

I can't believe they don't give you a loaner!

 

[1badjk]

I have also experienced the rattle on startup. But....

I drove a 2011 ecoboost f150 for 7 years and it did the same thing but I never had any major issues with the truck for 150k miles. I have a catch can on my raptor and it collects minimum amounts of oil over time so I can’t see that being a relative cause. I do have a little concern that a newer model ecoboost engine is having the same issues and like others have stated; I want to mod my truck but I don’t want to replace the motor at my expense. Hope all this gets resolved.

 

[DPGT]

Mine is an early 17.
One at a time:
Cam phasers. Fords machining for the park mode or carved a ramp on one or both phasers. Ford unused the same phasers up to 2020 to get rid of the piles of phasers they had
I made sure they used the new design on the back side parking pin.

Other sound:
Sounds like phasers but actually it’s the turbo linkage. Have someone else start your truck and you can hear and see it happen. You can also eliminate phaser vs turbo rattle by doing the WOT STARTUP. truck won’t start but will build oil pressure. Full throttle for 7 seconds then remove foot from throttle and rattle goes away. This tells you it’s phasers.

Blow off valve is there only to return oil build up and gasses for eps crap. Problem here is if you allow tat crap to be burned you are actually lowering the octane. I put one on mine (actually ad before I picked up my brand new truck). Mine did both sides and I put a brass valve on to dump it. I was amazed at the amount of what looked like coffee with cream and about 8 ounces. So imho that much caught ( you won’t get all of it) will lower fuel’s octane resulting in lugging which is very bad on these engines.
Luckily I have a 17 which is the only year still 2025 that you can lock out gears for city vs highway driving. I actually get better mileage by only giving the engine 5-6 gears. Secondly the 17 has a computer controlled oil pump. Again the only year.

Conclusion or anecdotal you pick. Oh lastly the 17 has a GT500 fuel pump in it. Yes only the 17.

After the phase replacement/I replaced all of the other parts not covered (no labor cost) because I was getting ready to make 600 plus Whp and a full e85 setup meaning full flex fuel. No science project at every filling can run any amount of E I want without doing a thing. I did everything with efficiency as the ultimate objective. Nothing in running the motor is or has been changed above Fords settings meaning rpm level, boost level, oil pressure level (remember 17’s) oil pressure is already adjusted by the computer so everything going in leaving then spinning CPR stage 5’s with additional fuel ID 1050X on the standard injector side and by default that cleans the backside of the intake valves BONUS. SO after two hero runs of 670plus we decided to pull back to 600 /610 who.
The point behind this book is if this motor pushes a ford GT well why not a Ripping Raptor. I have 5 pages of parts we charged and yes it cost me close to 60k but I know it’s not a cheap throw bigger turbs add some timing and grenade and be surprised. See you at 150k miles of smiles.
I hope the begging solves and explains the issues some are having. I also don’t think it’s very prevalent.